If Elon Musk canot keep his his twitter mouth shut should SEC/ U S Attorney indict him?

[VicBee]

I think Facebook is a reflection of society, both in content and manipulation of content. Probably 80% of it is benign while the rest is not. Facebook presented itself as a platform, a reflection of user expression. Their biggest strategic mistake was to bow to the political pressure and curate content rather than risk having to abide by the more stringent burden of proof journalistic standard.
In effect, politicians asked Facebook to be a values and moral compass because they, politicians, didn't have the guts to address the fundamental elephant in the room, which is, where does freedom of expression end.
Mind you, this is an American specific issue, because of its absolutist fanaticism, whereas nowhere else in the world governments and citizens question the necessity to constrain expression, particularly when it threatens. Most ironically, Euro laws prevent individuals from hiding behind pseudonyms, holding each accountable for their content, while in obsessed "freedom of expression" America people are free to lie, spew hatred and show horror in anonymity. The hypocrisy is stunning.
Zuckerberg should have forcefully asserted his platform status and held government responsible for writing up the values and moral laws they wished for him to abide by.
The key point is this, when We the People abdicate our rights to decide through our elected representatives what is right and what is wrong and let businesses make those decisions, we end up with the shitshow that America has become.
America's government has become so weak that anyone can and does flaunt its rules, from rebellious citizens, to all representatives of its 3 branches of government. Right or Left, governing has become nearly impossible, anarchy has won.
Finding common values has become very difficult because, thanks to Trump and his far right cohort, no one is hiding their hateful values anymore. And I say thanks because this needed to happen, the puss needed to pop out of the pimple for the foundation to heal.
Facebook is the Tower of Babel. Zuckerberg built it for profit, not realizing what was going to become of it.

 

[breadcrum]

I think there is enough facts at Facebook
that came to light through whistle blowers that show that FB has developed algorithms that intentionally hook children and young adults by abusing psychological traits in humans. It's disingenuous to excuse FB and just say that FB is a reflection of society. They made active choices to maximize profit at the expense of the social wellbeing of an entire generation. And they knew those full well from the start. Exactly the same as what happened at Purdue pharma. They knew perfectly well about the effects of oxy and still decided to push that poison to everyone who showed up at a doctor. They intentionally designed a system to monetarily incentivize clinics to push that crap to everyone with the slightest pain. FB did and still does the exact same thing just on a psychological level. Its too easy to just say that FB is a reflection of society.

I can't disagree with you more about the origins and reasons for the status quo in society. I am deeply convinced that the current malaise is a result of giving unhinged powers to an elite that does everything it can to not just grip onto their powers but to further increase control. An elite that is not treated equally than everyone else but an elite that writes its own laws and gets out of most trouble by paying money. A government that is incentivized to maintain the status quo because lobbyists make sure that the honey keeps flowing. It's a deeply flawed system that in its current existence most likely cannot exist and survive for that much longer because it completely hollows out the middle class. Any educated student of history already describes America as an experiment rather than a settled success story. There are countless other societies that are equally if not much more successful at providing a high quality of life to a broad based segment of their society.

I think Facebook is a reflection of society, both in content and manipulation of content. Probably 80% of it is benign while the rest is not. Facebook presented itself as a platform, a reflection of user expression. Their biggest strategic mistake was to bow to the political pressure and curate content rather than risk having to abide by the more stringent burden of proof journalistic standard.
In effect, politicians asked Facebook to be a values and moral compass because they, politicians, didn't have the guts to address the fundamental elephant in the room, which is, where does freedom of expression end.
Mind you, this is an American specific issue, because of its absolutist fanaticism, whereas nowhere else in the world governments and citizens question the necessity to constrain expression, particularly when it threatens. Most ironically, Euro laws prevent individuals from hiding behind pseudonyms, holding each accountable for their content, while in obsessed "freedom of expression" America people are free to lie, spew hatred and show horror in anonymity. The hypocrisy is stunning.
Zuckerberg should have forcefully asserted his platform status and held government responsible for writing up the values and moral laws they wished for him to abide by.
The key point is this, when We the People abdicate our rights to decide through our elected representatives what is right and what is wrong and let businesses make those decisions, we end up with the shitshow that America has become.
America's government has become so weak that anyone can and does flaunt its rules, from rebellious citizens, to all representatives of its 3 branches of government. Right or Left, governing has become nearly impossible, anarchy has won.
Finding common values has become very difficult because, thanks to Trump and his far right cohort, no one is hiding their hateful values anymore. And I say thanks because this needed to happen, the puss needed to pop out of the pimple for the foundation to heal.
Facebook is the Tower of Babel. Zuckerberg built it for profit, not realizing what was going to become of it.

 

[Overnight]

...Any educated student of history already describes America as an experiment rather than a settled success story. There are countless other societies that are equally if not much more successful at providing a high quality of life to a broad based segment of their society.

Name some of them, please. You typed "countless", which infers pretty much every other society on the planet. But please, indulge us. Name a few if you can.

Yer in for a wild time when you try to...

 

[VicBee]

We can agree to disagree. Also, it's difficult to discuss a subject we haven't even properly defined. America stands alone in many aspects and thus should be breached specifically or else generalizations become invalid against the rest of the world. For example, many countries believe in freedom of expression but none take it to its absolutist meaning as America does. It reminds my of those religious fundamentalists who take the Bible literally.

 

[VicBee]

Name some of them, please. You typed "countless", which infers pretty much every other society on the planet. But please, indulge us. Name a few if you can.

Yer in for a wild time when you try to...

He is right, there are many. His reference is quality of life to the larger segments of society. So countries that offer a social safety net, from free healthcare, retirement benefits, free education, etc. are effectively providing a better quality of life to a larger segment of society than America does.
Free? You say... Certainly not free. Those with high income subsidize those benefits and everyone contributes a larger % of their income to the safety net. But, to the dismay of some Americans, most Europeans agree with that taxation as a social stabilizing, ethical and moral responsibility. Americans who fundamentally believe in the self before the whole, simply cannot come to term with that. We Americans are taught that government is oppressive and taxation is robbery. The glorification of the self-made man in the land of opportunities there for the taking from hard work and determination. Even breathrens Canadians, NZ and Australians whose foundational roots are similar to that of the US have adopted social safety nets similar to those of Europe.

 

[Overnight]

...Even breathrens Canadians, NZ and Australians whose foundational roots are similar to that of the US have adopted social safety nets similar to those of Europe.

But at what cost? The social safety nets you talk about are sucked through your gut, through the earnings you make. Value-Added Tax for example. Do you have any idea how crippling that is for freedom of discretionary spending, just so you can pay the costs of caring for your sick folks?

What is quality of life when the money you may wish to use to take a vacation is whittled away to care for dying people you do not know? It is a compulsory system in America as well, but at least we are not getting so taxed out of pocket that we cannot have some play money.

Quality of life to "broad-based segments of society" my ass.

There has to be a give and take on this front, because equity is the great equalizer. In America, the battle rages on between the haves and have-nots.

In socialist countries, everyone has, but has nothing, because they pay for everyone else.

VAT. Explain VAT please?

You folks are not ready to be unplugged from the system.

 

[breadcrum]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Japan, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Singapore, New Zealand,... Enough for you?

Name some of them, please. You typed "countless", which infers pretty much every other society on the planet. But please, indulge us. Name a few if you can.

Yer in for a wild time when you try to...

 

[Overnight]

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Japan, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Singapore, New Zealand,... Enough for you?

What is their disposable income after a year of salary?

What IS quality of life? Is it based upon what the governmental authorities dictate, or is it based upon your freedom of choice, which you can only have when you are not under the thumb of oppressive taxation?

 

[breadcrum]

How about you explain first how you measure happiness and contentment. You say discretionary spending is crippled through taxation. Sure it is, but it's returned to you through free education, free healthcare and the like. In the end a broad based majority in society benefits. Just like with insurance, you pay in and it reduces your discretionary spending but you benefit in the event of unforseen circumstances. The hypocrisy I often see among those who claim they wanna take care of themselves is that the moment they get sick and get dropped off in front of the ER in unconscious state get treated anyway, guess who pays for that if the sick is otherwise unable to pay afterwards. It's the rest of society. Europe just does it the other way around, it requires everyone to pay their fair share and in exchange you get the "premium" insurance package and your kids get education all the way until PhD free of charge, transportation is often subsidized among many other aspects of life.

But at what cost? The social safety nets you talk about are sucked through your gut, through the earnings you make. Value-Added Tax for example. Do you have any idea how crippling that is for freedom of discretionary spending, just so you can pay the costs of caring for your sick folks?

What is quality of life when the money you may wish to use to take a vacation is whittled away to care for dying people you do not know? It is a compulsory system in America as well, but at least we are not getting so taxed out of pocket that we cannot have some play money.

Quality of life to "broad-based segments of society" my ass.

There has to be a give and take on this front, because equity is the great equalizer. In America, the battle rages on between the haves and have-nots.

In socialist countries, everyone has, but has nothing, because they pay for everyone else.

VAT. Explain VAT please?

You folks are not ready to be unplugged from the system.

 

[breadcrum]

It's completely irrelevant what the absolute level of disposable income is. If your average folk can't even afford an unforseen surgery anymore then what is your discretionary income good for? It's all relative, meaning, what you get for your disposable income when you spend it.

Again you are hiding the ugly truth of the other side of the coin. Guess who pays for all those "fallen people" who crash through the cracks and can't get themselves up anymore in your system? You think they just conveniently vanish from the surface of the earth? You really believe there is no price to pay for others then those themselves? If your system really worked by letting all those fail who willingly took the risk then why covid payments? Why subsidizing businesses? They all had the chance to build a rainy day fund years ago, they chose not to. Why bail them out if according to your system they should all care for themselves, only. Apparently that wonderful system of yours that is supposed to rely on self sufficiency and own personal choices does not work all that well after all.

What is their disposable income after a year of salary?

What IS quality of life? Is it based upon what the governmental authorities dictate, or is it based upon your freedom of choice, which you can only have when you are not under the thumb of oppressive taxation?