If edge is hard to get, why traders keep trading?

[ElCubano]

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

The fact that you don't recognize that risk/money management as the true edge in successful trading is a huge indication that you have a long long way to go in your learning and are fairly new to the game. Capital and the use thereof is the ONLY true edge in true edge in trading. Take it from someone who has many years of trading experience. Thank you for your time--Ishmael

Risk is the only one thing we can control in trading once a trade is put on. If the only one thing we can control in trading isn't an intregal part of an EDGE, then how can anything else even be considered remotely an edge, when you have no control over it....Again, I know nothing , see nothing and hear nothing....I just buy sell lose and win...

 

[Johno]

Quote from ElCubano:

does positive expectancy guarantee winning?

Of course not!

But without positive expectancy you can be guaranteed to lose over the long haul!


Also from Elcubano

"Risk is the only one thing we can control in trading once a trade is put on. If the only one thing we can control in trading isn't an intregal part of an EDGE, then how can anything else even be considered remotely an edge, when you have no control over it....Again, I know nothing , see nothing and hear nothing....I just buy sell lose and win..."

A reflection of how a professional thinks!
p.s. we are also managing risk prior to placing a trade.

Regards

Johno

 

[jones247]

What Rules did They change...??

Quote from jem:

absolute bullshit.

I made a 6 figure living trading a highly leveraged account for over 5 years trading stocks off of t/a.

It worked great until they changed the rules.

In my office at one point in time 12 guys made a living doing the same.


we made 20 - 100 trades a day.

it was not statistically anomaly. It was an edge we had using t/a.

I am sure there are plenty of guys who still make a living using t/a.

the markets are very far from random.

 

[ProfLogic]

Quote from marketsurfer:

i'm not an expert, still learning this fascinating game, however, i do know many people, at all levels, in the business. some of trading is psychological, i would say less than 10%, and that is having the confidence to trust your edge and take action in a dynamic chaotic environment-- regardless of proven edge. however, if you have real edge, psych has very little to do with it.

risk taker is 100% correct. psych is for the weak and those who don't posess an edge. however, there are exceptions, as you climb the ladder in assets--everyone has a limit of confidence--hence steve cohen consulting with psychologists---nothing to do with actual trading except for the nervous and weak who need a crutch and hand holding while they lose money.

surf

If you don't think someone that Intraday trades needs focus and a lack of distractions to trade consistently, regardless of the confidence they have in whatever system they are using then you are farther gone than I ever believed.

The psychology of trading is about personal mental focus and clarity of situations and occurrences, it isn't about you and your normal weekly appointment with the shrink that treats your Ostrich complex.

 

[dozu888]

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

The fact that you don't recognize that risk/money management as the true edge in successful trading is a huge indication that you have a long long way to go in your learning and are fairly new to the game. Capital and the use thereof is the ONLY true edge in trading. Take it from someone who has many years of trading experience. Thank you for your time--Ishmael

then you probably have longer way to go. risk control is over-rated. have a $50k account, and trade 1 ES contract, there - money management problem solved.

the hard part is, how do you trade 1ES and make $100 day, instead of losing $50 per day consistently.

How do you time entries/exits - what is your edge?

 

[ivanbaj]

How long is the long haul?

What if I don't hang around for the long haul to get me? (negative expectancy works)

Or what if I die before the long haul arrives for me to profit.
(positive expectancy does not work)

 

[short&naked]

An edge need not be complex or something that nobody else is doing (although on the lower TFs it better be unique in order to last).

However, if you have a 55% win rate you still need MM to profit (i.e. let your winners run to pay for the bad trades).

The lower TFs may not be filled with noise and random movements, however, it is fair to say that the competition is quite a bit greater on the tick and 1M charts. Also the cost of doing business can make all the difference to your equity curve after 10-20 years. Those costs add up more than you can realize.

 

[trader_david]

there is no such thing as so called edge. if you trust yourself and believe you are able to make it, that is your edge.


market is the same all the day, up and down, down and up.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from intradaybill:

Please, do not separate edge, risk and money management and discipline. They are all-inclusive. Only very novice traders make this type of mistake.

I repeat here what I posted on another thread:

Trading profitably is all about having an edge.

The term "edge" includes:

(1) A way of timing entries and exits so that the resulting expectancy is a positive number of sufficient magnitude

(2) Proper position sizing so that the risk of ruin is minimized

(3) Proper capitalization so that an effective risk and money management method can be put to work

(4) Discipline and emotional stability

95% of traders lack one or more of the above. Most lack (3) and (4). Nobody will disclose his edge unless he is crazy. So forget about getitng information about (1) anywhere.

....

disagree. Most people do not have a positive expectancy for any length. That is easily problem #1.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from dozu888:



the hard part is, how do you trade 1ES and make $100 day, instead of losing $50 per day consistently.

How do you time entries/exits - what is your edge?

Using Risk/Money management