I'd rather make 20% Auto trading than

Quote from gnome:

A successful autotrading system would be the Holy Grail. Just turn on the computer in the morning, go play golf, then come home pick up the money take it to the bank.. Voila!

I suspect few ever achieve it. And even for those who do, their success is likely not durable.

I'd like to hear stories of success in this arena, however...
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I have one. It has taken me almost two years to develop and refine it, but I now believe it is world-beating.

It has been averaging $2000 per month per YM contract. (This is based on 4 months of live trading, and 2.5 years of tick-level backtesting). If you trade $8000 per contract, this is 25% return a month.

I may make a move to a lower-margin broker (currently with IB). $500 day trade margins would allow me to trade with $4000 a contract, (to allow for the historical worst-case drawdown of $3k). This would then make it 50% a month return.

Pretty soon though, I'll run into the problem of position sizes on the YM being too big relative to that contract's volume, and it will be time to move to the ES if I want to keep increasing the volume.

And yes, it is 100% automated. This does not mean it is emotionless though. Like another poster said, you have to love the game.
 
If you trade $8000 per contract, this is 25% return a month.
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and the drawdowns are.......? 50%+

You might not blow out....but you might. I've seen it all before. Focusing on the results and ignoring the losses.

I wouldn't want to trade anythign that gives me more than about 8% per month. Why? Becasue i know it is a disaster waiting to happen.

I do realize when you find your system

1) It won't last for-ever. Be ready for the day it stops with another one. Or at least it will need tweaking.

2) You can't go on a world tour for 6 months and expect to have made millions. LOL I wish, but what I can't stand is watching the f**** quote machine all day. I want to daytrade but not by wasting my time in front of the quote machine. That's why I prefer auto-systems. I can check up on them daily/weekly/monthly, etc.

I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to sit and watch charts and quotes all day... NO WAY.
 
if this is the case then I will never day trade:
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I suspect few ever achieve it. And even for those who do, their success is likely not durable.
 
Judy, you are absolutely correct! Generally speaking, autotrading is for weak/lazy people who tend not to care about learning the markets(with the exception of those who have other careers to attend to and dont have the time). They want to make money without putting in hard work. They are not traders in my opinion. I put in 2-4 hours a day watching the multi time frame charts to scalp spot euro/usd and ES futures. And I wouldnt have it any other way. People like you, me, and select others on here have a true passion for the markets. The rest on here are just wannabees who lack that passion and drive to truly be successful traders and make a great living at it......
 
You are joking right?

So you stare at the screen for 4+ hours day and you have a passsion? I guss an alcholic will say the same if he drinks for 12 hours a day. Get a life!

so people who have jobs and auot trade are ok? Biut people who wantt o auto trade otherwise are lazy? What gives? Eiher auto trading works or it does not.

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People like you, me, and select others on here have a true passion for the markets. The rest on here are just wannabees who lack that passion and drive to truly be successful traders and make a great living at it......
 
Quote from chipmunk:

Guest? Who's a guest, where? I don't get what? Are you drinking?
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Quote from chipmunk:

I maintain the very best traders wil lbeat asystem. Even by a ,lnog shot.
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Are you? :)
 
Quote from Mike805:

For someone who has been around a while, I would think that your opinions would be slightly more informed. Obviously what you fantasize does not exist in terms of "easy money", but, long term success and durability with automated trading certainly does exist.

Anything you can imagine can be programmed. Your skill set can be translated, step by step into an automated system. You might chose to argue this point, but, you'd be wasting your time, we are all algorithms in one form or another.

Second, if your "edge" isn't durable, then you never had an edge in the first place. You were just lucky. Edges exist that work on all products ALL THE TIME throughout history. These edges exploit fundamental market behavior that repeats perpetually.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, automated systems require discipline. One still takes significant losses from time to time and all the other factors like data issues, random news events etc. make things interesting on a daily basis. What you seem to forget is that trading an ATS is not "hands off" in many aspects. A skilled and experienced trader is always behind any good system.
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Totally wrong! First, you are assuming that human action can be programmed. It could be done in theory but the brain and equipment needed would assume that you have already made it to riches. ;)

Also, edges to come and go. Short term market structures change with changes in volatility, volume, etc. Making an algorithm account for this is pretty much impossible. In short, an edge is not durable, since you can never be sure when or if it will be taken away from you.
 
Quote from chipmunk:

say 35% but having to stayed glued to the quote machine al lday.

Say you are a day trader. you can make what 6% per month but you have to watch the quote machine all day....what a life :-(

Wouldn't it be better to auto trade even if it means taking a 50% pay cut?

Does anyone actually enjot watching the quotes go up and down all day? What a terrible life. Not for me.
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Most firms having bots trading for them hire at least 2 people per auto system for monitoring purpose.

Even at 1 person per auto system, you are looking at 50K cost (desk cost and salary) minimum per system. So, if your leverage is greater than 0.25 (yes, you get it right, $4 sitting here per $1 put on the line) then you better sit there watch your system performing tick by tick. :)

Undertstand what risk/reward means, in details, before putting your $ on the line.
 
Quote from TradingPilot:

"quote machine" LMAO!
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Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. What's this guy referring to? A Quotron? Did he step out of a time warp from the 1980s?

Of course, most of the punks around here don't even know what a Quotron was. :p
 
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