Ice shelf collapse was biggest for 10,000 years

Quote from Arnie:

Wrong again!

The Bush admistration has spent OVER 5 BILLION DOLLARS on climate research, more than any previous adminstration. Look it up. I've posted on this before, but let me remind you that global warming due to manmade activites is a THEORY.

For all the scientists you cite, I can cite an equal number, just as prestigous as yours.

Here's a link to a site with over 17,000 American scientists, 2/3 with advanced degrees that disagree with your view. Read their Petition.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p357.htm
That's all well and good. Have you had a look at this yet?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1415985.shtml
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Pabst,

I will say this about you. While I often disagree with your point of view on any number of topics, there is no denying that you present your arguments well. (Most of the time. :D )


Thank you. Truly.
 
When I grew up in America, it was safe to drink from rivers and streams, eat fish from lakes, etc.

Is it now?

Nope.....

The only thing that keep the greedy capitalists from polluting at will is what little we have left of an active EPA. That agency is a joke, Christine Whitman can easily attest to the raping of the environment during Bush's reign.

We turn a blind eye to the environments of China and India, and their pollution....in the same way we ignore China's human rights violations, and the way workers conditions are around the world are ignored by multinational corporations in the name or corporate profits.

China and India would respond to our demands if we had any sack, but the corporations rule this country, and the bottom line for them is profit, not environmental effects or working conditions for workers and/or the environment.

Quote from Pabst:

I had a completely different experience in 1960's Chicago. Granted each of our remembrances are based on the geography, demographics and economics of the place we're "sampling."

To those in the West and the fast growing Southern cities it must seem things are getting worse. I imagine in your lifetime Z the population of California has near quadrupled. It's only natural that you've seen firsthand the degradation of nature. Many of the old industrial cities of the North have seen the opposite.

When I was growing up, Lake Michigan was polluted. I grew up in a riparian property and know the habits of the lake well. Today you can wade offshore and see the bottom. The air quality in Chicago was also abysmal. Cars burning leaded fuel, the stench of factories, steel mills in Gary, the Chicago Stockyards and the 1967 alewife invasion filled the nostrils with stench. And in the beautiful Chicago summers I burnt. Skin cancer incidence rising? I would hope so! Just as I would hope reported prostate cancer is soaring. Why? Because a generation ago most of those old enough to suffer from those cancers were dead from other shit before they could live long enough to get skin cancer.

The transition from industrial to techno/service has cleaned up Chicago, St.Louis, Gary, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh and many other smaller cities. Of course the loss of polluting jobs also meant a permanently unemployed underclass in many of those cities. It's funny that the lefties always take their socialist shot at the greedy capitalists who pollute to gain profit. I'm sure both true and untrue. But what's always true is that those polluting enterprises employ MANY low skilled workers who America has displaced in spades.

BTW: What is China and India's take on environmental impositions. I bet they both ultimately say "fuck you" to the West. I can see it now. The West telling the East to not pollute is like Teddy Kennedy telling young wage earners to "pay their fair share." Yea right. After you guy's rule the world from your ill gains, now the rest of us should play square. No way. Now that the West doesn't need to cut down rain forest and build huge factories (with our labor costs, tax structure and regulations we can't compete anymore in most manufactured goods) we can safely preach to the world's Asiatic emerging wealthy. We're whistling Dixie.
 
Antarctic air is warming faster than rest of world
By Mark Henderson
New finding could have implications for sea level rises
AIR temperatures above the entire frozen continent of Antarctica have risen three times faster than the rest of the world during the past 30 years.

While it is well established that temperatures are increasing rapidly in the Antarctic Peninsula, the land tongue that protrudes towards South America, the trend has been harder to confirm over the continent as a whole.

Now analysis of weather balloon data by scientists at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) has shown that not only are the lower reaches of the Antarctic atmosphere warming, but that they are doing so at the fastest rate observed anywhere on Earth.

Temperatures in the troposphere — the lowest 8km (5 miles) of the atmosphere — have increased by between 0.5C and 0.7 C (0.9F and 1.3F) per decade over the past 30 years.

This signature of climate change is three times stronger than the average observed around the world, suggesting that global warming is having an uneven impact and that it could be greater for Antarctica.

It is already known that temperatures in the Arctic are rising steeply, but with the exception of the Antarctic peninsula, the data for the southern ice-cap are more mixed.

Although the Antarctic peninsula has warmed by more than 2.5C during the past 50 years, most surface measurements suggest that there have been no pronounced temperature changes elsewhere on the continent, while some have indicated a small cooling effect.

The new research, led by John Turner, of the BAS, shows that the air above the surface of Antarctica is definitely warming, in ways that are not predicted by climate models and that cannot yet be explained. The results are published today in the journal Science.

“The rapid surface warming of the Antarctic Peninsula and the enhanced global warming signal over the whole continent shows the complexity of climate change,” Dr Turner said.

“Greenhouses gases could be having a bigger impact in Antarctica than across the rest of the world and we don’t understand why.

“The warming above the Antarctic could have implications for snowfall across the Antarctic and sea level rise. Current climate model simulations don’t reproduce the observed warming, pointing to weaknesses in their ability to represent the Antarctic climate system. Our next step is to try to improve the models.”

The weather balloons from which the data has been collected have been launched daily from many of Antarctica’s research stations since 1957. These balloons carry instrument packages known as radiosondes, which measure temperature, humidity and winds at altitudes of 20km and beyond.

The radiosonde data showed a pronounced warming effect throughout the troposphere during the winter months, while the stratosphere above cooled appreciably.

There is increasing evidence that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide are creating a blanket about the Earth that traps heat at lower levels, warming the troposphere and surface, while cooling the stratosphere above.

The study is the third to be published this month to suggest that the effects of global warming on Antarctica are likely to be more pronounced than has often been predicted.

Research has indicated that the melting of the Greenland ice-cap in the Arctic could produce sea level rises that destabilise Antarctic ice-shelves, and Nasa satellite data have shown the internal Antarctic ice-sheets to be thinning.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2111772,00.html
 
EPA May Weaken Rule on Water Quality
Plan Would Affect Towns That Find Complying Costly

By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 1, 2006; A04

The Environmental Protection Agency is proposing to allow higher levels of contaminants such as arsenic in the drinking water used by small rural communities, in response to complaints that they cannot afford to comply with recently imposed limits.

The proposal would roll back a rule that went into effect earlier this year and make it permissible for water systems serving 10,000 or fewer residents to have three times the level of contaminants allowed under that regulation.

About 50 million people live in communities that would be affected by the proposed change. In the case of arsenic, the most recent EPA data suggest as many as 10 million Americans are drinking water that does not meet the new federal standards.

Benjamin H. Grumbles, assistant administrator for EPA's Office of Water, said the agency was trying to satisfy Congress, which instructed EPA in 1996 to take into account that it costs small rural towns proportionately more to meet federal drinking water standards.

"We're taking the position both public health protection and affordability can be achieved together," Grumbles said in an interview this week. "When you're looking at small communities, oftentimes they cannot comply with the [current] standard."

But Erik Olson, a senior lawyer for the advocacy group Natural Resources Defense Council, called the move a broad attack on public health.

"It could have serious impacts on people's health, not just in small-town America," Olson said. "It is like overturning the whole apple cart on this program."

The question of how to regulate drinking water quality has roiled Washington for years. Just before leaving office, President Bill Clinton imposed a more stringent standard for arsenic, dictating that drinking water should contain no more than 10 parts per billion of the poison, which in small amounts is a known carcinogen. President Bush suspended the standard after taking office, but Congress voted to reinstate it, and in 2001, the National Academy of Sciences issued a study saying arsenic was more dangerous than the EPA had previously believed. The deadline for water systems to comply with the arsenic rule was January of this year.

The proposed revision was unveiled in early March in the Federal Register and is subject to public comment until May 1. Administration officials said the number of comments they receive will determine when it would take effect.

EPA's new proposal would permit drinking water to have arsenic levels of as much as 30 parts per billion in some communities. This would have a major effect on states such as Maryland and Virginia, which have struggled in recent months to meet the new arsenic rule.

Last summer, the Virginia Department of Health estimated that 11 well-based water systems serving 9,500 people in Northern Virginia might not meet the new standard for arsenic.

Maryland has a high level of naturally occurring arsenic in its water, and its Department of the Environment has estimated that 37 water systems serving more than 26,000 people now exceed the 10-parts-per-billion arsenic limit. These include systems serving several towns as well as individual developments, mobile home parks, schools and businesses in Dorchester, Caroline, Queen Anne's, Worcester, Garrett, St. Mary's and Talbot counties.

General Manager George Hanson's Chesapeake Water Association in Lusby, Md., serves 4,000 town residents with four wells. Three of them meet the new arsenic standard, but one well has 14 parts per billion in its water. He estimated that cleaning it up would cost between $1 million and $4 million.

"It's some of the most beautiful water I've ever seen. The arsenic is the only thing that fouls the entire system," Hanson said, adding that he and other community water suppliers are hoping the new EPA proposal will offer them a way out. "They're waiting for someone to help them."

Under the Safe Drinking Water Act Amendments of 1996, complying with federal drinking water standards is not supposed to cost water systems more than 2.5 percent of the median U.S. household income, which in 2004 was $44,684, per household served. That means meeting these standards should not cost more than $1,117 per household.

Under EPA's proposal, drinking water compliance could not cost more than $335 per household.

Several public officials and environmental experts said they were just starting to review the administration's plan, but some said they worry that it could lead to broad exemptions from the current federal contaminant standards cities and larger towns must also meet. Besides arsenic, other water contaminants including radon and lead pose a health threat in some communities.

James Taft, executive director of the Association of State Drinking Water Administrators, said he and others are concerned that the less stringent standard will "become the rule, rather than the exception" if larger communities press for similar relief.

Avner Vengosh, a geochemistry and hydrology professor at Duke University's Nicholas School of the Environment and Earth Sciences, said he was surprised by the administration's proposal because North Carolina officials are trying to keep arsenic levels as low as 2 parts per billion.

"It's a bit ironic you have this loosening in the EPA standard when local authorities are making it more stringent," Vengosh said, adding that many rural residents "have no clue what they have in the water."

National Rural Water Association analyst Mike Keegan, who backs the administration's proposal, said the current rule is based on what contaminant levels are economically and technically feasible, rather than what is essential to preserve public health.

The administration may face a fight on Capitol Hill over the proposal. Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), who helped write the 1996 law, said EPA's proposal, "if finalized, would allow weakened drinking water standards, not just in rural areas, but in the majority of drinking water systems in the United States."
 
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