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IBM and Outsourcing.
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
Newsflash!!! US corporations are not selling outside the US, check out our trade deficit if you have any doubts about that. US corporations are manufacturing outside the US and selling inside the US.Quote from eusdaiki:
it would make US corporations less competitive when selling outside the US, to Europe for instance.
And who cares if US corporations are competitive if they have three high-paid executives and 10 super-rich shareholders in the US and the rest of the staff is in India or China. As far as I am concerned they are not US corporations, they are foreign corporations. They could not care less about millions of americans they fired and replaced with cheap foreign labor, why should americans give a damn whether a business which only benefits 3 executives and 10 shareholders is competitive?
This where the fun really begins.
Imagine if you will, China and the other asian counties allow foreign companies to operate within their borders until the bottom of the labour barrel is reached so as to speak and labour rates are stable and rising.
What do you imagine will happen then?
Someone wrote earlier of Tariffs and protection mechanisms.
It pains me to mention it but they are two edged swords and so be very careful what it is that you wish for.
Imagine if you will, China and the other asian counties allow foreign companies to operate within their borders until the bottom of the labour barrel is reached so as to speak and labour rates are stable and rising.
What do you imagine will happen then?
Someone wrote earlier of Tariffs and protection mechanisms.
It pains me to mention it but they are two edged swords and so be very careful what it is that you wish for.
Ok, you are right about the trade deficit. However you haven't properlly analised what it means.Quote from dddooo:
Newsflash!!! US corporations are not selling outside the US, check out our trade deficit if you have any doubts about that. US corporations are manufacturing outside the US and selling inside the US.
And who cares if US corporations are competitive if they have three high-paid executives and 10 super-rich shareholders in the US and the rest of the staff is in India or China. As far as I am concerned they are not US corporations, they are foreign corporations. They could not care less about millions of americans they fired and replaced with cheap foreign labor, why should americans give a damn whether a business which only benefits 3 executives and 10 shareholders is competitive?
In simple terms it means that more wealth is leaving the US than is entering the US [when you sell you get money when you buy someone else gets it]. What this means is that the average person in the US has too much money to spend and therefore you are an attractive customer to corporations outside the US, that situation puts pressure on US salaries to go lower. However, to maintain such a situation you'll need to continue to pay everyone very high salaries but doing so will worsen the trade deficit, putting even more pressure on the economy to cut back salaries.
In an unregulated market the price of labor will simply go down [you get to keep your job put they pay you less], however since you have unions and minimum wages the prices can't go down freely, that translates into you getting fired once your wage becomes too expensive, relative to the value you add to the economy.
good call ftraderdragon, it'll be very difficult to outsource lawyers since A. they bite, and B. they basically do paper work at court houses for you [dealing with beaurocracy is a big chunk of their bussiness ] and I don't think any judge is going to approve to a teleconference trail anytime soon.
fearless... I agree with you. About doctors and dentists, they are already getting outsourced, it's called medical tourism. You take your whole family to a trip to Indonessia stay at a 5 star hotel, get your procedure done in a world class hospital by world class doctors, do a little shopping and you still pay less than the guy who got his procedure in the US.
Down here we have several companies doing that too.
Accountants are also getting heavily outsorced, probably cause you can do a companies books from anywhere in the world without it making any difference.
About the shiny new fence of yours... well that might prove to be not such a good investment in the long run.
Protectionism is indeed a two edge sword.
Quote from eusdaiki:
The only thing that tarrifs may acomplish is delaying the problem and making it into a bigger snowball.......
For reference read Hersher Ollin's Theorem, the Theorem of dinamic stability of equilibrium, and the work of Friedman, Nicholson, Stiglitz, just to name a few.
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Hello eusdaiki:
I think you might be hiding behind books rather then having to experiance first hand sending our jobs out of this country so fast. Tarrifs can be used in various ways... You assume a fixed tarrifi for a long time? A tarrifi could be for a variable amount on money for a set number of years with a set reduction each year.
Look at it this way. You go to a cafe to eat your main meal. You prefer to use maybe 15 minutes. How about having your time reduced by 14 minutes and all food forced down your throat in just one minute... because someone else wants your "job" of eating... You don't like being rushed out of your chosen "job" of using 15 minutes to eat... Tough luck, go back to school to learn how to retrain your self to eat your main meal in just one minute flat... Fast eaters would help profits at McDonalds? Yes yes, we can't even consider "slowing down this very fast rate of change in our work force" because it might hurt possible profits??
Yep.. everything must be done RIGHT NOW including helping the whole world.. even if we have to stomp hard on our own people.. Glad I am fairly well off and retired rather then depending on you for anything. I'd only need a half second to tell you how fast I could help you learn how to eat faster in a public cafe so others could have your table... I wouldn't want you holding down profits at any public cafe... Profits ya know are first... not people.
agpilot.
Ps. You do make valid points but I think you forgot the human side of doing is so fast...
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Traderdragon2: Want a high paying job that will never get outsourced? Become a lawyer.
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December 11, 2006
SouthAmerica: Lawyers have been outsourcing a lot of their back office functions to countries such as India â including even research into cases is being done in India for a fraction of the cost if that same research had been done here in the USA.
Besides I have two types of software that provides me with all kinds of agreements for all types of occasions that were usually drafted by lawyers â you can find agreements for all kinds of purposes including real estate dealings, and divorce â all you have to do is change one of these readily made agreements to fit your specific personal need and then you ask for a lawyer to check it and give a final review â you can save a ton of money that way since the lawyer would be spending a lot less time preparing your agreement.
I am talking about simple agreements â the type that most people need anyway.
These types of software are already reducing the amount of legal work lawyers used to provide to the average people.
.
Traderdragon2: Want a high paying job that will never get outsourced? Become a lawyer.
********
December 11, 2006
SouthAmerica: Lawyers have been outsourcing a lot of their back office functions to countries such as India â including even research into cases is being done in India for a fraction of the cost if that same research had been done here in the USA.
Besides I have two types of software that provides me with all kinds of agreements for all types of occasions that were usually drafted by lawyers â you can find agreements for all kinds of purposes including real estate dealings, and divorce â all you have to do is change one of these readily made agreements to fit your specific personal need and then you ask for a lawyer to check it and give a final review â you can save a ton of money that way since the lawyer would be spending a lot less time preparing your agreement.
I am talking about simple agreements â the type that most people need anyway.
These types of software are already reducing the amount of legal work lawyers used to provide to the average people.
.
Agpilot ... you are 20 -30 years too late to be thinking of US based tariffs.
The game now has advanced to China thinking of expat and export tax on foreign corps once the bulk of purchasing power swings onto it's emerging middle class.
Having taken the US jobs it will next be chasing repat profits and export tax from foreigners.
How long do you think it will be before Boeing and Airbus pass work along to China. These corps are the flagships of the western world.
US wages/spending power peaked during 1970's and has been on the slippy slopes ever since.
The game now has advanced to China thinking of expat and export tax on foreign corps once the bulk of purchasing power swings onto it's emerging middle class.
Having taken the US jobs it will next be chasing repat profits and export tax from foreigners.
How long do you think it will be before Boeing and Airbus pass work along to China. These corps are the flagships of the western world.
US wages/spending power peaked during 1970's and has been on the slippy slopes ever since.
Quote from traderdragon2:
Add cisco systems to that list. I have friends there, and they tell me about their USA groups that went from 200+ developers to 5 in the last few years. All of IT is going to india. Too bad, there is no way to stop it.
Thats why I got the hell out of IT. Dead end in the USA.
Hewlett Packard is even worse. They have slashed their IT positions by 90%, and plan to do that again in the next few years.
This is why I, too, am in the process of getting out of the IT business. I think in 15-20 years IT workers will be the equivilent of today's auto workers.