IB YM Execution not reported by TWS

Quote from Trader.NET:

One,

As I indicated in my later post that my order disappeared from TWS and IB system (quote "dropped off the screen") after the last change I made at 10045. TWS showed me I was short and no standing open order so I entered a new order to cover at 10049. After the market close, IB found the missing order that was executed at 10045 after the market close.
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I gotta tell you, this has been one confusing story. I think I got it now. You entered an order which evidently was executed but did not show in your system. So you entered a second order. Is that about it?

Frankly, had I been in your position I would have called them to verify the fill before I entered anything else. Then they would have had an opportunity to tell you that you had no position.

I had a situation where I entered a limit order, but near the price the market was trading at in the ES. About that time I was dropped from TWS (my own fault, not IB's). During that brief period where I was off the system, I was filled. When I signed back on, it appeared I should have a fill, but it did not show as an execution. So I called IB. They told me I had a position.

Later, when I closed the position, I was kind of nervous about it, so I called back and verified that I was flat at that time. I was.

Had they THEN come back to me and claimed I had a position I might have had a arguable point since I had done everything within my power to take responsibility for knowing my position.

In this case I think you're sunk. You didn't check. You assumed.

IndexTrader
 
See comments inline.

Quote from OldTrader:



I gotta tell you, this has been one confusing story. I think I got it now. You entered an order which evidently was executed but did not show in your system. So you entered a second order. Is that about it?

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No, you didn't get it right. The order DISAPPEARED from TWS. It's not shown executed nor as standing open order. The execution came in from IB after the market was closed. I didn't even know the order existed since it vanished from TWS.
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Frankly, had I been in your position I would have called them to verify the fill before I entered anything else. Then they would have had an opportunity to tell you that you had no position.

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Well, I didn't see any inidcation of problem. No open order, no stuck order. TWS showed me nothing about the problem.
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I had a situation where I entered a limit order, but near the price the market was trading at in the ES. About that time I was dropped from TWS (my own fault, not IB's). During that brief period where I was off the system, I was filled. When I signed back on, it appeared I should have a fill, but it did not show as an execution. So I called IB. They told me I had a position.

Later, when I closed the position, I was kind of nervous about it, so I called back and verified that I was flat at that time. I was.

Had they THEN come back to me and claimed I had a position I might have had a arguable point since I had done everything within my power to take responsibility for knowing my position.
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On the same day, another trader who had the same problem on YM trade did EXACTLY what you described and he got the same treatment like I had. You would give benefit of doubt to IB, but not your fellow traders? IB system was at fault. They just don't want to admit it as business practice.
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In this case I think you're sunk. You didn't check. You assumed.

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Well, until it hits you next time. This is not about logging off and on again. The order somehow disappeared from TWS and from IB backend since they only found out after the market was closed (prbably from exchange).
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IndexTrader
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Yes, I understand the order 'disappeared'. But the point I'm trying to make here is that you had an order in. What did you think happened to the order? It was at least worth a call to IB rather than to ASSUME some mysterious computer gremlin had run off with the order.

My point with my personal story was simply to show you that things happen at times, not to tell you an identical story. But when confronted with a situation where the transaction did not show, I simply called IB. In my case they confirmed I had a position, eventhough it did not show on my TWS. Perhaps they would have been able to confirm that you were flat if you had called. Instead, you entered another order without seeking any confirmation first.

Don't know about you but to me it makes emminent sense to call someone when something inexplicable happens.

We'll never know now what they might have said. Had they said you were short, and THEN you entered an order to cover the position, I think the situation is much different.

Just giving you a third party opinion. Obviously you want to pin this on IB. I'm simply pointing out that had YOU acted somewhat differently, the result could well have been different.

OldTrader
 
I didn't notice the order was gone. As you know TWS sometime rejects and removes orders from the entry. I suppose you don't track every cancel and confirm with IB, do you?

Had I called IB it would not make any difference since someone actually did do that with the same issue on YM trades. He was told that he didn't have the missing open order after he found out that he had one order missing from TWS and there's no execution for the order. IB people told him that he didn't have any order missing and reported the position to him. Guess what happened later? So he entered a new order to complete the trade. He had the execution on the missing order entered MANUALLY after the market close that IB own people couldn't track down when being contacted about it.

There're more than just me who had the problem at the same day, other traders had the exact problem on the missing orders.

I wish you had read the whole post before making suggestions as to what I would have to do to make up the IB's error.

Quote from OldTrader:

Yes, I understand the order 'disappeared'. But the point I'm trying to make here is that you had an order in. What did you think happened to the order? It was at least worth a call to IB rather than to ASSUME some mysterious computer gremlin had run off with the order.

My point with my personal story was simply to show you that things happen at times, not to tell you an identical story. But when confronted with a situation where the transaction did not show, I simply called IB. In my case they confirmed I had a position, eventhough it did not show on my TWS. Perhaps they would have been able to confirm that you were flat if you had called. Instead, you entered another order without seeking any confirmation first.

Don't know about you but to me it makes emminent sense to call someone when something inexplicable happens.

We'll never know now what they might have said. Had they said you were short, and THEN you entered an order to cover the position, I think the situation is much different.

Just giving you a third party opinion. Obviously you want to pin this on IB. I'm simply pointing out that had YOU acted somewhat differently, the result could well have been different.

OldTrader
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Quote from Trader.NET:

I didn't notice the order was gone. As you know TWS sometime rejects and removes orders from the entry. I suppose you don't track every cancel and confirm with IB, do you?

Had I called IB it would not make any difference since someone actually did do that with the same issue on YM trades. He was told that he didn't have the missing open order after he found out that he had one order missing from TWS and there's no execution for the order. IB people told him that he didn't have any order missing and reported the position to him. Guess what happened later? So he entered a new order to complete the trade. He had the execution on the missing order entered MANUALLY after the market close that IB own people couldn't track down when being contacted about it.

There're more than just me who had the problem at the same day, other traders had the exact problem on the missing orders.

I wish you had read the whole post before making suggestions as to what I would have to do to make up the IB's error.
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1. I've never had TWS 'remove an order from entry'.

2. Yes, you mentioned there was someone else who had something similar happen, who called IB. Based on what IB told him he took an action. What you're leaving out however is the resolution of this problem AFTER he acted on what IB told him. In this case he has a definite argument in my opinion. You on the other hand don't.

3. You've mentioned ONE other person who had a similar problem, not others.

4. I read your entire thread, more than once. Quite confusing I must say. Hopefully you communicated more clearly with IB, otherwise they well may not have understood the problem. Based on what I read though I offered you suggestions for the future. The problem is that when you are in the victim mode, you can only point your finger in the direction of IB. What you are missing is the fact that you could have taken some responsibility on yourself.

Either way, it's clear that my posts have not provided you with any insight. Just understand that there are few technical systems that I'm aware of that are 100% at all times with no glitches. Therefore, in the future when confronted with something that seems rather puzzling, ask someone rather than assume. This simple act will strengthen your position next time. Acting as a victim really accomplishes nothing.

OldTrader
 
1. I've never had TWS 'remove an order from entry'.
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I did. About two years ago 3 Sell Limit GTC orders suddenly disappeared during regular trading hours and re-appeared next day. Market never moved thru limit price, otherwise I would have had executions without knowing it. BTW, I was stupid enough to simply re-enter the orders (next day wondering why there were 6 Sell Limit GTC orders), but I would not do that again.

2. Yes, you mentioned there was someone else who had something similar happen, who called IB. Based on what IB told him he took an action. What you're leaving out however is the resolution of this problem AFTER he acted on what IB told him. In this case he has a definite argument in my opinion. You on the other hand don't.
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I would like to know, if IB will treat such a case in a different way based on the fact that IB customer service gave wrong information about the customer´s position.
 
I'm not really seeking advice on how to confirm or check with IB when we have issues with their system. Everyone knows that, isn't it obvious?

I was asking for advice on how to deal with IB after the incident.

Of course I would point my finger to IB since their system failed. I simply expect that TWS provides me the status of my order or gives me any indication if there're any issues such as PINK colors.

It would be a nightmare to trade if you have to confirm or worry every move. As a direct access broker, they have to be able to track and tell where your orders are in the entire process in real or near-time.

The reason I brought up other traders' with the same issues on the same day was to suggest that it could be system related bug rather than an isolated incident due to either my fault or something else.

I never expect 100% bug-free system, but they need to acknowledge their mistakes. I suppose they could get away from any technical issues since we all signed release forms when applying accounts with them.

Quote from OldTrader:



1. I've never had TWS 'remove an order from entry'.

2. Yes, you mentioned there was someone else who had something similar happen, who called IB. Based on what IB told him he took an action. What you're leaving out however is the resolution of this problem AFTER he acted on what IB told him. In this case he has a definite argument in my opinion. You on the other hand don't.

3. You've mentioned ONE other person who had a similar problem, not others.

4. I read your entire thread, more than once. Quite confusing I must say. Hopefully you communicated more clearly with IB, otherwise they well may not have understood the problem. Based on what I read though I offered you suggestions for the future. The problem is that when you are in the victim mode, you can only point your finger in the direction of IB. What you are missing is the fact that you could have taken some responsibility on yourself.

Either way, it's clear that my posts have not provided you with any insight. Just understand that there are few technical systems that I'm aware of that are 100% at all times with no glitches. Therefore, in the future when confronted with something that seems rather puzzling, ask someone rather than assume. This simple act will strengthen your position next time. Acting as a victim really accomplishes nothing.

OldTrader
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From the email I got from him, he was treated the same. That's why I brought it up that it would not make a difference had I called (I couldn't since I was not aware of the missing order at all).

I'm wondering if IB ever made good on their customers for IB's mistakes.

Quote from FX-Trader:

I did. About two years ago 3 Sell Limit GTC orders suddenly disappeared during regular trading hours and re-appeared next day. Market never moved thru limit price, otherwise I would have had executions without knowing it. BTW, I was stupid enough to simply re-enter the orders (next day wondering why there were 6 Sell Limit GTC orders), but I would not do that again.

I would like to know, if IB will treat such a case in a different way based on the fact that IB customer service gave wrong information about the customer´s position.
More...
 
Quote from Trader.NET:

From the email I got from him, he was treated the same. That's why I brought it up that it would not make a difference had I called (I couldn't since I was not aware of the missing order at all).

I'm wondering if IB ever made good on their customers for IB's mistakes.

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What do you mean you were not aware of the missing order at all? You were aware that you had an order that 'disappeared'. At this instant you should have been on the phone to IB finding out what action to take next, whether you had covered your position, etc. Instead, you entered another trade which is why you ended up with a long position.

And by the way, you don't have to call on each and every trade. When the trade goes as it should technically, then there's no reason to call. But when a glitch takes place, you call. I've had very few glitches in the several years I've been with IB. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Finally, you say 'he was treated the same', and that therefore it would have 'made no difference had you called'. Please! We don't know what might have happened had you called....because you didn't. What if they said you were filled on an order? In the past they have known I had a position that did not appear in my TWS. How do you know that nothing beneficial might have happened.

Further, once you have acted based on their statements, at least you have a leg to stand on. You claim this did the other guy no good. But chances are you have to do some battle in these things. One thing for sure, if you take no action you have literally no idea whether they might have known your position at the time, or whether making the call might have resulted in their taking responsibility for the situation.

OldTrader
 
Today I got an email from IB stating "Please note that IB issued a notification to all affected customers on December 15,2003 at 17:16 EST informing them of the manual trade entry." and "..., it has been determined that no compensation is due the account. Please be aware that under the IB Customer Agreement, IB is generally not liable for system or communication errors. ...".

Obviously it was system wide error on that day. I was lucky to offset the trade at the same price next day. However, I'm not happy about the manner in which this matter was handled. It's not open and timely. If I had choice on another broker, I would take my business elsewhere.
 
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