IB TWS: A tragedy in the making?

[dcraig]

Quote from maxpi:

I'm reasonable, I report things to developers that can and will fix things, IB can't /won't, it's reasonable to not help them.. their error message comes up on top of their login screen so you cannot see what's going on with the login and it's Sierracharts fault? Who's being unreasonable here?

They can change it so that when the login screen is moved the error message does not follow it or not, I don't care... I can still use my great little third party apps like Sierracharts, Openquant, AMIBroker, etc.. they can hassle with IB's problems and everybody's happy...

The thread title is about TWS becoming a disaster, I pointed out an odd way that you could wind up tearing your hair out... how would you like to be trapped in a 60 second timeout loop with the error screen coming up and covering the login screen every three seconds if you were in a disastrous position?? Hee hee.. I don't want to even think about it, I might have nightmares...

I understand the point you are making, and quite agree that any type of error notification should not obscure information about the source of the error. And that IB should fix that particular issue if that is indeed what is happening.

Nevertheless, if the error is triggered by Sierra's auto login, it is also Sierra's responsibility to fix. If IB does not provide any defined and supported interface (eg API), then if you try to use various tricks to achieve that end and you experience problems with a new release, then it is your (ie Sierra's) problem to fix.

If one thinks that IB should provide some interface for auto login that is documented and supported and can reasonably be expected to work from release to release, then that feature should be requested from IB. They may well knock you back, but you can only ask.

More generally, I do think some of the eye candy in TWS is pretty horrible. Starting with the look and feel. And my pet hate is the window title bar. Window title bars should be just the normal system title bar (eg Windows title bar or KDE or Gnome title bar on Linux). There is no good reason to put all the cruft on the title bar and remove window manager functionality from the Window menu that really should be there. It is just bad practice.

 

[kostia00]

More generally, I do think some of the eye candy in TWS is pretty horrible. Starting with the look and feel. And my pet hate is the window title bar. Window title bars should be just the normal system title bar (eg Windows title bar or KDE or Gnome title bar on Linux). There is no good reason to put all the cruft on the title bar and remove window manager functionality from the Window menu that really should be there. It is just bad practice.

There is a setting in TWS configuration that disables the hand-painted window title, and reverts back to standard Linux/etc title bar. You do lose a couple of features, like ability to group windows.

 

[dcraig]

Quote from kostia00:

There is a setting in TWS configuration that disables the hand-painted window title, and reverts back to standard Linux/etc title bar. You do lose a couple of features, like ability to group windows.

Thanks for that info. I guess I should RTFM.

... now the TWS frame can be moved to the top of screen without leaving a gap the height of title bar.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from dcraig:

I understand the point you are making, and quite agree that any type of error notification should not obscure information about the source of the error. And that IB should fix that particular issue if that is indeed what is happening.

Nevertheless, if the error is triggered by Sierra's auto login, it is also Sierra's responsibility to fix. If IB does not provide any defined and supported interface (eg API), then if you try to use various tricks to achieve that end and you experience problems with a new release, then it is your (ie Sierra's) problem to fix.

If one thinks that IB should provide some interface for auto login that is documented and supported and can reasonably be expected to work from release to release, then that feature should be requested from IB. They may well knock you back, but you can only ask.

More generally, I do think some of the eye candy in TWS is pretty horrible. Starting with the look and feel. And my pet hate is the window title bar. Window title bars should be just the normal system title bar (eg Windows title bar or KDE or Gnome title bar on Linux). There is no good reason to put all the cruft on the title bar and remove window manager functionality from the Window menu that really should be there. It is just bad practice.

Actually, Sierrachart is doing what I told it to do, it's just that I pulled up TWS when Sierrachart was waiting to connect to it, I start typing [I'm getting used to Sierracharts] and Sierra starts doing it's thing and I can't figure out what the hell is going on with the STUPID TWS NOTIFICATION bouncing up and obfuscating the login window like a Jack in the Box... it was just one of those "aw f$%k this shitware" moments... it is not a trading with TWS show stopper at all.. I recommend IB for trading.. but I don't even want to look at that ugly, dysfunctional TWS if I can help it... I'm so thankful that we have third party developers that can deal with that stuff and occasionally they don't catch things until after a TWS release is out for awhile...

 

[rwk]

Quote from dcraig:
Thanks for that info. I guess I should RTFM.
... now the TWS frame can be moved to the top of screen without leaving a gap the height of title bar.

I will admit that, in my case, I did not RTFM before doing the upgrade. But for my upgrade, there were ten sets of release notes to be waded through. Making a change that is certain to break customers' apps, then burying a passing comment in the release notes is not good software development. Most of the items in the RNs are mind-numbingly boring descriptions of eye candy and useless features.

In the feature at issue, the user checks the configuration to turn off the feature. The new feature is enabled (unchecked) by default. I'm not sure I would have understood how it works or how it would break my apps even if I had RTFM.

 

[mikesmithv]

The way I see it peace-of-mind is the name of the game. Bug IB, rant and rave, it's all good, but now here is how you do the peace-of-mind part.

Step 1. In the Administration section you can open a "Simulator" account. It has all the trading privileges and data feeds of you main account.

Step 2. Set up a second computer identical to the trading computer with the ONLY difference being that you are using the simulator account instead of the main account.

Step 3. When IB upgrades a TWS version (or for any changes to your trading system whatsoever) then make that change first to the computer running the simulator account. That will flush out these kinds of problems in most cases.

I had the exact thing happen to me but it was on my simulator account so I side-stepped the whole mess which could have been even worse in my case.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from mikesmithv:

The way I see it peace-of-mind is the name of the game. Bug IB, rant and rave, it's all good, but now here is how you do the peace-of-mind part.

Step 1. In the Administration section you can open a "Simulator" account. It has all the trading privileges and data feeds of you main account.

Step 2. Set up a second computer identical to the trading computer with the ONLY difference being that you are using the simulator account instead of the main account.

Step 3. When IB upgrades a TWS version (or for any changes to your trading system whatsoever) then make that change first to the computer running the simulator account. That will flush out these kinds of problems in most cases.

I had the exact thing happen to me but it was on my simulator account so I side-stepped the whole mess which could have been even worse in my case.

Man, you would let IB shove that much work off on you?

IB should be paying people to do that...

 

[mikesmithv]

Quote from maxpi:

Man, you would let IB shove that much work off on you?

IB should be paying people to do that...

This is one area where coming from a software background rather than a trading background actually has an advantage. In the software business everything is seen as a work-in-progress. Windows, Mac and Linux is a work-in-progress, so is Java and yes, so is TWS. So a person coming from a software engineering background naturally trusts nothing and has a staging setup for testing purposes where you can run your code under a specific environment(s) before it becomes "production code". The alternative to "letting IB shove off work on me" is what? Just install the very latest version of TWS under whatever combination of Window/Mac/Linux and Java and hope for the best? In a perfect world maybe but the world's not perfect.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from mikesmithv:

This is one area where coming from a software background rather than a trading background actually has an advantage. In the software business everything is seen as a work-in-progress. Windows, Mac and Linux is a work-in-progress, so is Java and yes, so is TWS. So a person coming from a software engineering background naturally trusts nothing and has a staging setup for testing purposes where you can run your code under a specific environment(s) before it becomes "production code". The alternative to "letting IB shove off work on me" is what? Just install the very latest version of TWS under whatever combination of Window/Mac/Linux and Java and hope for the best? In a perfect world maybe but the world's not perfect.

The alternative is to take business to somebody that doesn't shove work off on people...

I'm not really here to hurt IB, I use them for things... it's like a boundary issue with a roommate... say the roomie never washes their dishes, or leaves their clothes in the washer and expects you to move them to the dryer so you can wash yours... after awhile there just isn't any good will toward that person. If they were looking for work or advice, and you knew what they needed to know, you might just clam up because there isn't any good will until maybe the day they move out and you stand there and say "bye, good luck"...

There is a difference between a work in progress and releasing software that just isn't tested that well and telling people who aren't Beta testers to report things... there are alternatives out there nowadays, if IB doesn't work for me I can go do something else...

 

[dcraig]

Quote from mikesmithv:

This is one area where coming from a software background rather than a trading background actually has an advantage. In the software business everything is seen as a work-in-progress. Windows, Mac and Linux is a work-in-progress, so is Java and yes, so is TWS. So a person coming from a software engineering background naturally trusts nothing and has a staging setup for testing purposes where you can run your code under a specific environment(s) before it becomes "production code". The alternative to "letting IB shove off work on me" is what? Just install the very latest version of TWS under whatever combination of Window/Mac/Linux and Java and hope for the best? In a perfect world maybe but the world's not perfect.

Couldn't agree more.

I'd add one other comment - one should schedule software upgrades such that if there is an issue, there is the time to resolve it or revert back to the older release. Weekends are good it possible.