maybe you ought to read the release to understand how IB runs their business e.g. unlike most firms they hedge their $US exposure.
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IB traders
- Thread starter Jackthepipper
- Start date
sorry but I smell a lot of BS. You are executing more than 5 billion USD notional equivalent within 10-12 business days and do not know of other solutions? And when you called, IB did not kiss your feet? Makes no sense at all. And why are you asking retail traders? IB caps size per ticket at 5 million USD equivalent (roughly speaking), meaning to trade in the size you indirectly indicated you must be trading through their institutional desk and hence have a completely different setup. I dare say that because I myself use their institutional desk where they lift the cap but where currency spreads also widen by quite a bit as function of order size.
If you truly traded in such volume then you would certainly use a Prime Broker that gives you access to much higher quality liquidity in currency markets at lower commissions than the ones IB charges.
Sorry but I do not buy your story because I myself specialize in currencies (cash and options) and I smell BS.
Thanks for all the responses. I actually did look into a Prime of Prime setup about a year ago when I started trading for myself (prior to this I made G10 markets at a bank in NY for 10 years before moving to a prop firm in Chicago for 3 years before starting my own business). I learned that you must keep at least $1 to 1.5 million for collateral/margin with the Prime (I looked at FC Stone among others). Additionally, none of the institutions I spoke with would beat $10-12 per million. I mainly click in 4 unit increments and in terms of liquidity, IB is light years better than what I had at a bank (Reuters/EBS) and on par with what I used at the prop firm for execution. IB has something like 12-16 LPs. It is a remarkable platform for trading forex. That is why I wouldn't be put off if the other responses in this thread are correct in saying that IB doesn't bend for anyone. That was my question and it seems I have the answer.
Conduit is Volpunter, right ?
Anyway there was a poster here who claimed he managed to get rid of the most expensive price brakets on share trading with IB, and be charged from day 1 of the month at a cheaper bracket, where most of his trading fell anyway.
I never approached IB in that regard and have no idea wether the claim.is true.
Anyway there was a poster here who claimed he managed to get rid of the most expensive price brakets on share trading with IB, and be charged from day 1 of the month at a cheaper bracket, where most of his trading fell anyway.
I never approached IB in that regard and have no idea wether the claim.is true.
So how do you get your size done with the 5 million order ticket caps you are subject to like every other trader with an IB standard account?
Thanks for all the responses. I actually did look into a Prime of Prime setup about a year ago when I started trading for myself (prior to this I made G10 markets at a bank in NY for 10 years before moving to a prop firm in Chicago for 3 years before starting my own business). I learned that you must keep at least $1 to 1.5 million for collateral/margin with the Prime (I looked at FC Stone among others). Additionally, none of the institutions I spoke with would beat $10-12 per million. I mainly click in 4 unit increments and in terms of liquidity, IB is light years better than what I had at a bank (Reuters/EBS) and on par with what I used at the prop firm for execution. IB has something like 12-16 LPs. It is a remarkable platform for trading forex. That is why I wouldn't be put off if the other responses in this thread are correct in saying that IB doesn't bend for anyone. That was my question and it seems I have the answer.
@rmorse, I cannot recommend Citigroup/Citibank at all. They have a long track record of short changing retail and institutional clients but then most banks do. Biggest problem with your suggestion is that liquidity improves and costs of execution dramatically go down when trading through ECNs unless you execute very large orders that are executed over several days.
So how do you get your size done with the 5 million order ticket caps you are subject to like every other trader with an IB standard account?
Agree 100% on Citi Velocity. I used it as an auxiliary platform while at the prop shop as a fall back in case the proprietary platform went down. Citi puts each Velocity customer on a spread schedule (gold, silver, bronze I believe) depending on what they thought they could get away with - in other words, how savvy a client you were considered (i.e. the spread they showed in 25 GBP to the CB of Russia would be tighter than what they showed a retail clown like myself). In any case, even if I preferred Velocity over IB (which I do not), you can't gain access unless you margin a large sum as in the prime of prime example. I usually do not have position sizes in excess of $8 million notional and the majority of the time I click in 4 units so a $250k account provides enough margin for my needs. If I was still market making at a bank and needed to see a demand price in 100-200 euros or something, then Velocity would be ok and maybe even preferred over IB. But for spreads in 5-8 units, IB (with 12-16 LPs) is exponentially better than Velocity which shows solely Citi e-liquidity.
You trade 5 billion usd notional on 12 days with a 250k margin account? Your stated figures still don't add up at all. With 5 billion traded in 12 days that puts you at a 400million avg executed per day. Even if you traded 8 million per order as you indicated you trade at a max per order (which you cant because ib caps you at 5, and which I assume given you stated you have max 8 mil positions max on the book at a given point in time) you would need to put on 26 million trades per day assuming a round trip of 16mil per trade.
Mate, either you stated wrong figures by accident or you are a liar. Which one is it?
Also you must have worked at a very small bank before because you stated you traded G10 currencies. Most banks split up currency trading into much less pairs a single trader focuses on. For example most traders only either focus on trading euro cross currencies or pound ones. I have never heard of a bank dealer who manages all G10.
Mate, either you stated wrong figures by accident or you are a liar. Which one is it?
Also you must have worked at a very small bank before because you stated you traded G10 currencies. Most banks split up currency trading into much less pairs a single trader focuses on. For example most traders only either focus on trading euro cross currencies or pound ones. I have never heard of a bank dealer who manages all G10.
Agree 100% on Citi Velocity. I used it as an auxiliary platform while at the prop shop as a fall back in case the proprietary platform went down. Citi puts each Velocity customer on a spread schedule (gold, silver, bronze I believe) depending on what they thought they could get away with - in other words, how savvy a client you were considered (i.e. the spread they showed in 25 GBP to the CB of Russia would be tighter than what they showed a retail clown like myself). In any case, even if I preferred Velocity over IB (which I do not), you can't gain access unless you margin a large sum as in the prime of prime example. I usually do not have position sizes in excess of $8 million notional and the majority of the time I click in 4 units so a $250k account provides enough margin for my needs. If I was still market making at a bank and needed to see a demand price in 100-200 euros or something, then Velocity would be ok and maybe even preferred over IB. But for spreads in 5-8 units, IB (with 12-16 LPs) is exponentially better than Velocity which shows solely Citi e-liquidity.
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You trade 5 billion usd notional on 12 days with a 250k margin account? Your stated figures still don't add up at all. With 5 billion traded in 12 days that puts you at a 400million avg executed per day. Even if you traded 8 million per order as you indicated you trade at a max per order (which you cant because ib caps you at 5, and which I assume given you stated you have max 8 mil positions max on the book at a given point in time) you would need to put on 26 million trades per day assuming a round trip of 16mil per trade.
Mate, either you stated wrong figures by accident or you are a liar. Which one is it?
Also you must have worked at a very small bank before because you stated you traded G10 currencies. Most banks split up currency trading into much less pairs a single trader focuses on. For example most traders only either focus on trading euro cross currencies or pound ones. I have never heard of a bank dealer who manages all G10.
You trade 5 billion usd notional on 12 days with a 250k margin account? Your stated figures still don't add up at all. With 5 billion traded in 12 days that puts you at a 400million avg executed per day. Even if you traded 8 million per order as you indicated you trade at a max per order (which you cant because ib caps you at 5, and which I assume given you stated you have max 8 mil positions max on the book at a given point in time) you would need to put on 26 million trades per day assuming a round trip of 16mil per trade.
Mate, either you stated wrong figures by accident or you are a liar. Which one is it?
Also you must have worked at a very small bank before because you stated you traded G10 currencies. Most banks split up currency trading into much less pairs a single trader focuses on. For example most traders only either focus on trading euro cross currencies or pound ones. I have never heard of a bank dealer who manages all G10.
Yes I trade in excess of $5 billion notional most months - usually by mid month as indicated- unless I am out of the office frequently. I do not click in units of 8, I click in units of 4. I rarely have position sizes in excess of $8 million notional, depending on the currency pair. For example right now I'd assign equivalent risk to 10 AUD/USD and 3 GBP/USD. I probably keep overnight risk about 10% of the days. The majority of my money is made intraday - I usually trade around the days theme very actively, hence the high volume. YTD my IB commission paid is > $425k. I try to keep my account balance between $250k-300k at all times as a governor for my trading. One of my admitted and acknowledged weaknesses as a trader is the propensity to go for home runs leveraging a view. In the course of my career this has gotten me in more trouble than it's been worth. If my account is capped at $300k I can't have 50 USD/JPY in it. Maybe I miss the opportunity to make a stick on a few occasions but I will definitely miss the opportunity to blow my account. It's just a better option for me personally, knowing my trading style. This is another reason I decided against the prime of prime route. I'm not exactly sure why you don't believe my numbers but they're accurate. I actually traded at Morgan Stanley. You are correct that big banks do not leave the whole of the G10 order book to one dealer (aside from during the shi$show that is the New York/Asia 5pm changeover - at which point it becomes the Wild West with the five junior dealers in the market still at their desks trying to manage the GBP/NZD stop for Tudor over the RBNZ rate decision - but that will certainly put some hair on your balls). I started out trading CHF as a junior but was the EUR trader by the time I left. But with guys on vacations etc it's not u heard of to manage multiple ccy books in a day. I was on JPY during the flash crash. I've seen most everything you can see in currency trading from the advent of electronic markets. But would give my left arm to have been around in the sole voice days !
So you make over 100 trades a day with an average 4 million order size. That still sounds incredibly unbelievable.
Apologies for my earlier typo re the numbers I put up. In any case anyone trading 400 million a day should definitely look elsewhere than IB. With that size you can easily push down commissions to less than 10$ per million traded in (I reckon even 7 dollars is doable) while not only accessing 1 liquidity pool but 5 or 6. Baxter comes to mind and a few other PBs. Don't know about the quality of Baxter services but at least they have the infrastructure in place and are willing to negotiate commissions.
Apologies for my earlier typo re the numbers I put up. In any case anyone trading 400 million a day should definitely look elsewhere than IB. With that size you can easily push down commissions to less than 10$ per million traded in (I reckon even 7 dollars is doable) while not only accessing 1 liquidity pool but 5 or 6. Baxter comes to mind and a few other PBs. Don't know about the quality of Baxter services but at least they have the infrastructure in place and are willing to negotiate commissions.
Yes I trade in excess of $5 billion notional most months - usually by mid month as indicated- unless I am out of the office frequently. I do not click in units of 8, I click in units of 4. I rarely have position sizes in excess of $8 million notional, depending on the currency pair. For example right now I'd assign equivalent risk to 10 AUD/USD and 3 GBP/USD. I probably keep overnight risk about 10% of the days. The majority of my money is made intraday - I usually trade around the days theme very actively, hence the high volume. YTD my IB commission paid is > $425k. I try to keep my account balance between $250k-300k at all times as a governor for my trading. One of my admitted and acknowledged weaknesses as a trader is the propensity to go for home runs leveraging a view. In the course of my career this has gotten me in more trouble than it's been worth. If my account is capped at $300k I can't have 50 USD/JPY in it. Maybe I miss the opportunity to make a stick on a few occasions but I will definitely miss the opportunity to blow my account. It's just a better option for me personally, knowing my trading style. This is another reason I decided against the prime of prime route. I'm not exactly sure why you don't believe my numbers but they're accurate. I actually traded at Morgan Stanley. You are correct that big banks do not leave the whole of the G10 order book to one dealer (aside from during the shi$show that is the New York/Asia 5pm changeover - at which point it becomes the Wild West with the five junior dealers in the market still at their desks trying to manage the GBP/NZD stop for Tudor over the RBNZ rate decision - but that will certainly put some hair on your balls). I started out trading CHF as a junior but was the EUR trader by the time I left. But with guys on vacations etc it's not u heard of to manage multiple ccy books in a day. I was on JPY during the flash crash. I've seen most everything you can see in currency trading from the advent of electronic markets. But would give my left arm to have been around in the sole voice days !