Ib Sucks
- Thread starter mdmbud
- Start date
yeah, it means if it goes against you're filled. if goes for you, you're cancelled. my 11 yo trades with me and she's like "what's up with that?" didnt have the heart to tell here that its really "pending rape of your account."
i was actually going to go with IB, 'cause my trading buddy has already switched and he loves them - of course he was with RJT too, so maybe the relative comparison is unusually favorable for IB. one things for sure, since i started here at ET, there has been a really mixed opinion with no shortage of people who have been burned and have only bad things to say about the customer service.
I have pretty good luck with IB, but sometimes I wonder...
I quite often have stock limit orders that are way under the market fill on nonexistent prints. Happens a lot on that crappy ARCA. IB usually calls pretty quick to say that the exchange is going to bust the trade.
I usually know when it happens and I wait for the call. But last time, I had a limit Buy order filled when the stock didn't seem to trade anywhere near the limit price. So I sold it quick, at a nice profit, to see what would happen. Well, they finally called and I assumed they would bust BOTH the Buy and my Sell and refund the commissions. After all, I only closed the trade because THEIR bad print caused a fill.
They busted just the Buy order and left me short the shares. I covered later and luckily the stock tanked again, so I had a profit. Since I had a profit on the deal I didn't contact them. I haven't had this happen before, but maybe it is common practice? Sure could get you in trouble if you were unknowingly short because of a busted trade. I'll be more careful next time.
I quite often have stock limit orders that are way under the market fill on nonexistent prints. Happens a lot on that crappy ARCA. IB usually calls pretty quick to say that the exchange is going to bust the trade.
I usually know when it happens and I wait for the call. But last time, I had a limit Buy order filled when the stock didn't seem to trade anywhere near the limit price. So I sold it quick, at a nice profit, to see what would happen. Well, they finally called and I assumed they would bust BOTH the Buy and my Sell and refund the commissions. After all, I only closed the trade because THEIR bad print caused a fill.
They busted just the Buy order and left me short the shares. I covered later and luckily the stock tanked again, so I had a profit. Since I had a profit on the deal I didn't contact them. I haven't had this happen before, but maybe it is common practice? Sure could get you in trouble if you were unknowingly short because of a busted trade. I'll be more careful next time.
is it just me, or is that just totally messed up? pretty soon they'll be a .00001 charge per share for busted-trade insurance. might be worth it? or maybe they could just cut the SEC budget in 1/2 and put the money into a busted-trade/IB-pauper's fund.
man, you're lucky - shouldda headed immediately for vegas... whenever something goes screwy, it never really seems to move in my direction... thats why i always try to be double careful. that, and worrying about RJT figuring out new "P&H" type fees that would act as a sump pump on my account really keep me on my toes.
Quote from Option_Attack:
I quite often have stock limit orders that are way under the market fill on nonexistent prints...
This problem is not caused by IB, or even strictly by the exchange. The fault is with the other party to the trade, who typo'd his order and hit you that far away from the market. and then was shameless enough to request a bust
This is a situation with which I'm quite familiar. There's a fine art to weighing the possibilities when you get such a fill. It's an easy decision when you get hit way away from the market (like buying at 47 instead of 87). Where it gets hairy is when you buy at 42 instead of 45 outside regular market hours. For those, you get to weigh the likelihood of the particular exchange busting the trade against holding onto the position instead of flipping it right away, against the possibility of there being news that you can't find, against event risk of war breaking out, etc. And you're not always right. It's a whole new form of risk arbitrage
Recently, Island came back at me 2 hours later, wanting to adjust a sale at 42.50 in the pre-market when the stock opened at 40. In this case, they went against my normal experience with them in 4 different ways.
Sometimes, though, I get to keep one that should have been busted. Go figure.
The easiest solution to these problems for most traders is to not place orders at prices that are "too good to be true" if you get filled. For some of us, that's not possible, but if you can do it, do.
I wholly support the "bust insurance" idea, and would be willing to pay a lot more than $0.0001 per share for it. I'd gladly pay a few bucks to get back the couple days that my life has been shortened by the stress of the 4 times this has happened to me this week!
I quite often have stock limit orders that are way under the market fill on nonexistent prints...
This problem is not caused by IB, or even strictly by the exchange. The fault is with the other party to the trade, who typo'd his order and hit you that far away from the market. and then was shameless enough to request a bust
This is a situation with which I'm quite familiar. There's a fine art to weighing the possibilities when you get such a fill. It's an easy decision when you get hit way away from the market (like buying at 47 instead of 87). Where it gets hairy is when you buy at 42 instead of 45 outside regular market hours. For those, you get to weigh the likelihood of the particular exchange busting the trade against holding onto the position instead of flipping it right away, against the possibility of there being news that you can't find, against event risk of war breaking out, etc. And you're not always right. It's a whole new form of risk arbitrage
Recently, Island came back at me 2 hours later, wanting to adjust a sale at 42.50 in the pre-market when the stock opened at 40. In this case, they went against my normal experience with them in 4 different ways.
Sometimes, though, I get to keep one that should have been busted. Go figure.
The easiest solution to these problems for most traders is to not place orders at prices that are "too good to be true" if you get filled. For some of us, that's not possible, but if you can do it, do.
I wholly support the "bust insurance" idea, and would be willing to pay a lot more than $0.0001 per share for it. I'd gladly pay a few bucks to get back the couple days that my life has been shortened by the stress of the 4 times this has happened to me this week!
Quote from abba231:
...piece of advice: If you are seriously pursuing legal action, I would recommend you tone down the insults and antagonism.
Generally, there's another good reason for this that was not mentioned. One of the more significant costs related to such problems is the bad PR that comes from it. By putting that bad PR out there, you're giving away that bargaining chip, and it can be less likely that you'll be able to settle the matter without arbitration/litigation.
...piece of advice: If you are seriously pursuing legal action, I would recommend you tone down the insults and antagonism.
Generally, there's another good reason for this that was not mentioned. One of the more significant costs related to such problems is the bad PR that comes from it. By putting that bad PR out there, you're giving away that bargaining chip, and it can be less likely that you'll be able to settle the matter without arbitration/litigation.
Quote from iceman1:
...Not saying one should take a big hit or not stand up for one's right when things are crystal, but now if they arise, which luckily there have been very few, I found out that patient negotiation usually gets more results than hostility, that there is value to a "longer" history with a firm (just like w/friendships) and as far your/our credibility it does pay to pick battles well so as not to get a rep with a firm of being a pain in the neck.
(plus a bunch of other great stuff)
I agree 100% with everything you said, though I'm afraid I don't always practice it in the heat of the moment, but I'm getting better. Unfortunately, the only way we learn this stuff is by going through it. There's more to being a great trader than the technical aspects of the work. While this can be a largely solitary profession, one still has to learn the people and business skills to handle conflicts and work the situation to get what one wants.
...Not saying one should take a big hit or not stand up for one's right when things are crystal, but now if they arise, which luckily there have been very few, I found out that patient negotiation usually gets more results than hostility, that there is value to a "longer" history with a firm (just like w/friendships) and as far your/our credibility it does pay to pick battles well so as not to get a rep with a firm of being a pain in the neck.
(plus a bunch of other great stuff)
I agree 100% with everything you said, though I'm afraid I don't always practice it in the heat of the moment, but I'm getting better. Unfortunately, the only way we learn this stuff is by going through it. There's more to being a great trader than the technical aspects of the work. While this can be a largely solitary profession, one still has to learn the people and business skills to handle conflicts and work the situation to get what one wants.
If the price seems absolutely totally ridiculous, don't get flat - most likely the trade will be busted. Just keep the position in your account til settlement date (T+3). If they haven't notified you of the trade being busted by then, then it should be yours. I've had busts come 2 days late before.
If the price seems only slightly ridiculous, then it is a guessing game as alanm said in his previous post.
Just curious about the "4 different ways" comment.
1. Island usually busts before 2 hours have passed?
2. Island usually doesn't adjust?
3. Island usually doesn't try to alter a trade that is less than 10% off?
4. Island usually busts pre-market trades before the opening print is known?