IB Made an Error. Will They Fix It?

OldTrader,

I agree with you. This time it was all my mistake and I am completely at fault for my lack of understanding. Now I understand and I am sorry for blaming IB. This is not in debate and I am not trying to belittle the apology by including in the same thread my experiences with their customer service.

My only complaint up to this point regarding customer service is my experience with them. They have made me "feel" for lack of a better term as a nuiscance rather than a valued customer. Granted this last complaint was due to my misunderstanding / ignorance however, I've had two very legitimate complaints prior (one yielding a 6300 dollar loss and the other over 10K) that have been solely IBs fault. One they have corrected and the other I am waiting to hear back from them about.

The point is that in all three situations it didn't matter who was at fault. The experience in dealing with them was the exact same. They immediately pushed the problem onto me and made me feel as if I was wasting their time. I spent on average over an hour and a half for each complaint and each time it felt like I was forced to argue my case as opposed to working with them in a cooperative manner.

Now I may not be a high level exec (like perhaps you are) but in my experience it's always more effective for both parties that a customer service department work cooperatively and politely with their customers as opposed to fighting them. This, and only this, was my complaint towards IB's customer service.

If I was vague or confusing in my original apology due to including my complaint in the same post then I apologize again. If we are in differing opinions on how a customer service department should treat it's customers then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If you just enjoy belittling people that you feel are less knowledgable or intelligent as you believe yourself to be then please feel free to do whatever helps you get through the day. Water off my back.

ddunbar,

I value your posts and not just because you're sympathetic towards me. The reason I value your posts is due to the intelligent and concise message you're stating regardless of whether they agree or differ from mine.

I understand how you could find the title of this thread as provacative. I'm glad you understand why I chose it. To reiterate, my primary purpose for posting this thread was because IB made a mistake with my account. Mistakes happen, and this mistake in itself will not change my opinion of IB. How they handle it is of importance. IB can do one of two things. They can correct the mistake or they can push the loss due to their mistake on me. I believe this is a chance for IB to really shine or not. I'm offering the public the opportunity to view this by opening this thread thus it's title.
 
Quote from OldTrader:

Now, maybe I'm out of line. You evidently think so, and probably he does too.
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No, I don't think you're out of line. Just a bit blunt. I've been that way myself a few times on here. And in defense of IB.

But I'm calling it the way I see it, and I'm too damn old to learn a new trick on that.
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LOL. Well, have to admire that.

I do hope they straighten the trade out for him.

OldTrader
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See there, you're a nice guy after all. :)
 
Sorry OldTrader,

I posted my last response before I saw yours. I appreciate your honesty and I agree, I should of understood the margining with the ES options. It was a misunderstanding and a mistake and now it's corrected. To me this is the process of learning. When I get old (like you) I won't have to do that anymore;)

As for squeezing nickels, I don't see how it is directly relevant. Yes, if I had closed the spread I wouldn't be in the situation now. Maybe next time I will. The point is, that IB made a mistake. I had logged in on Sunday night to determine if I was flat or not. IB said I was. On Monday they said they made a mistake and I was indeed not flat. Of course if I had done a hundred different things it would of turned out differently. But that's not why in this specific situation I incurred a loss.

We can argue back and forth about the legitimacy of my strategies, trading knowledge, and intelligence however that's not the issue here. I won't go to IB and complain if I make a mistake and if I do (as I just did) I will apologize and accept it if it is my fault.

IB has made multiple mistakes and they have never apologized to me. But I guess I deserve that for being so ignorant right? Look, I agree with you about knowledge and understanding. It may seem like I don't know a damn thing about what I'm doing. Regardless if I do or don't I find it ridiculous that people like you (I've seen many others at Elitetrader do it too) can make judgement calls on my knowledge, understanding, and even personality with the limited information available. If anything it says more about you than me.

To reiterate this thread is not about my strategies, knowledge, or ability at trading. It's about IB saying I was flat and then saying I was short 10 ES after the market had moved 12.5 points away from me. You can take shots at me or question me all you want, it doesn't change the fact that in this situation a mistake was made by IB that cost me money. The question is, what will they do about it.
 
Quote from cohenmichaela:

IB has made multiple mistakes and they have never apologized to me. But I guess I deserve that for being so ignorant right? Look, I agree with you about knowledge and understanding. It may seem like I don't know a damn thing about what I'm doing. Regardless if I do or don't I find it ridiculous that people like you (I've seen many others at Elitetrader do it too) can make judgement calls on my knowledge, understanding, and even personality with the limited information available. If anything it says more about you than me.

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If my posts "say" something about me, I'm OK with that. I expect the way I handle myself, and the words I use, to reflect me. In the end all we can do is "judge" others based on what they say and do.

That said, let me make another point here. There was a time when assignments weren't known on Sunday night. In fact, you were lucky if you knew anything prior to the opening on Monday AM. So when you looked over your expiring options on Friday afternoon, you did so from the standpoint of risk.

So here's the point...when you were looking over your positions on Friday afternoon, you obviously made the choice to try to squeeze something extra out of your position, eventhough it was in the money (if my memory serves). You weren't thinking, gee, some type of geopolitical thing could happen which could affect me IF I get assigned. You weren't thinking, gee what if there's some type of glitch regarding my position and I end up with something that I don't want.

One of the things that you learn over time in this business is to try to mitigate risk. They've carried more than one guy on a stretcher do to this issue.

Yes, IB made a mistake. I hope they give you your money. But what if this error was an error at the clearing corp level (or whatever they call it in the commodity options business)? How could IB have given you the correct information when they themselves didn't have it? And I guess you recall all the paperwork you signed. Based on my reading they probably don't have to.

So I hope you get the point here. Some risks just aren't worth taking. In my mind, the one you either consciously, or otherwise, took was in that category.

Next time you're at a expiration Friday, you will think about it at least. So don't be so quick to write me off as just another ET basher.

OldTrader
 
OldTrader,

I'm definitely not writing you off. If you take offense to anything I write please know at the very least I'm reading and thinking about everything you post.

In response though, I must say I don't think it's relevant in this specific situation when they used to post expiration results. The fact is they post them now on Sunday prior to the GLOBEX open. I know this. I checked my position based on the official statement that was released by my broker. They said I was flat.

I also think it's a mistake that you assume I didn't know or think what my risk was on Friday. I am and was aware of my pin risk. I was willing to accept this risk on Friday based on my strategy and tolerance for risk. I also had long delta / long gamma positions in the current month to possibly offset this risk. This is my strategy and I will accept the consequences of my decisions.

As for who's responsible for the error, the only thing I know is that it wasn't me. If it's my broker (which in this case it is) then they should fix it. If it's CME Clearing, then they should fix it. There's not much gray area here regardless of the paperwork I signed. I understand there are times when a trader can take a loss due to an unforseen issue where liability can't be pinned on any specific organization. The paperwork I signed says I accept that risk (such as technical problems on my side or that of my broker where I can't get out of a trade). That is not the case here.

You've said you agree with me that IB has made a mistake. I assume we then agree that IB is obligated to correct this mistake? They did post an incorrect statement. If they had issues then they shouldn't of posted the statement until they knew the status of my expired options. Then I wouldn't blame them for the loss.

I completely get your point about managing risk. I agree with you and think that this can't be said enough. However, there seems to be a recurring theme in your posts. You continually make judgements about me without a detailed amount of information to be accurate in those judgements. I certainly will in the future think about closing the spreads prior to expiration. Of course this is not because of a risk issue with the underlying market. I believe I know my risk and analyze my risk when opening and managing my positions. This is because I'm losing faith in IB to correctly process these positions at expiration. There's a great difference between the two.

I agree with you again that our words reflect a bit of who we are. I disagree with you on your statement of judging others. In my (short) experience on earth I've found nothing good comes of judging others...especially based on some posts made on an Internet forum. Perhaps when I'm older I will change my mind on this subject but I find no value in it now. I analyse peoples words and actions as I see them without any preconceived notions or judgement of their intent or ability. This way I can act or react in an objective way which minimizes mistakes caused to emotions, miscomunications, or more importantly misjudgements. This doesn't mean I'm not capable of seeing other peoples abilities, but it does mean I won't underestimate them. I guess I'm naive like that...

Good luck to you OldTrader (not that I think you need it) and know in advance that I value your thoughts.
 
Quote from OldTrader:

I think you need to quit beating that customer service drum. It looks to me like part of the problem here was your own lack of understanding of the product that you trade. Customer service was giving you the right answer, but you could hardly "hear" it given your various complaints. As I said in my original post, what we see quite often here is a customer who does not understand the situation and is accusing IB of various things.

Further, I would suggest that the next time you find it necessary to apologize, you make it sincere instead of coupling it with all the extraneous charges about their customer service.

OldTrader
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Hey, OddTrader.
But isn't it the room for improvement?

If a customer misunderstands something or makes a mistake, does it justify someone to speak on a disrespectful and rude tone? Making a good laugh, belittling or crticising others because they are less knowledgeable than you is arrogant.

Is it the behaviour we should expect when we treat others? Everyone was once a newbie, from nothing to everything. No one starts right at the top when they are born.

From the posts, cohenmichaela is clearly willing to learn and eat its words. It is not someone who will keep shouting or complaining for no valid reasons and without any self-examination. It is a rational person. Yes, it made a mistake, but that's not the reason for disrespect or blame.

Also I don't think a firm should always expect every customer must fully (I mean fully, not no understanding on even the basic things) understand the products, trading and so on, or they are not eligible for participation.

Being rude, aggressive and impatient, blaming or criticsing is not going to facilitate matters. What hurts you to respect a person, kindly point out the mistake in a friendly and mild tone? The way they treat customers, no matter who make mistakes, simply show they are lack of courtesy.

It is not only customer service should do so. Everyone should do. If all people learn to have good manners, there will definitely fewer arguments and misery, more peace and happiness. :)

My two cents. :)
 
Quote from cohenmichaela:

OldTrader,

I'm definitely not writing you off. If you take offense to anything I write please know at the very least I'm reading and thinking about everything you post.

In response though, I must say I don't think it's relevant in this specific situation when they used to post expiration results. The fact is they post them now on Sunday prior to the GLOBEX open. I know this. I checked my position based on the official statement that was released by my broker. They said I was flat.

I also think it's a mistake that you assume I didn't know or think what my risk was on Friday. I am and was aware of my pin risk. I was willing to accept this risk on Friday based on my strategy and tolerance for risk. I also had long delta / long gamma positions in the current month to possibly offset this risk. This is my strategy and I will accept the consequences of my decisions.

As for who's responsible for the error, the only thing I know is that it wasn't me. If it's my broker (which in this case it is) then they should fix it. If it's CME Clearing, then they should fix it. There's not much gray area here regardless of the paperwork I signed. I understand there are times when a trader can take a loss due to an unforseen issue where liability can't be pinned on any specific organization. The paperwork I signed says I accept that risk (such as technical problems on my side or that of my broker where I can't get out of a trade). That is not the case here.

You've said you agree with me that IB has made a mistake. I assume we then agree that IB is obligated to correct this mistake? They did post an incorrect statement. If they had issues then they shouldn't of posted the statement until they knew the status of my expired options. Then I wouldn't blame them for the loss.

I completely get your point about managing risk. I agree with you and think that this can't be said enough. However, there seems to be a recurring theme in your posts. You continually make judgements about me without a detailed amount of information to be accurate in those judgements. I certainly will in the future think about closing the spreads prior to expiration. Of course this is not because of a risk issue with the underlying market. I believe I know my risk and analyze my risk when opening and managing my positions. This is because I'm losing faith in IB to correctly process these positions at expiration. There's a great difference between the two.

I agree with you again that our words reflect a bit of who we are. I disagree with you on your statement of judging others. In my (short) experience on earth I've found nothing good comes of judging others...especially based on some posts made on an Internet forum. Perhaps when I'm older I will change my mind on this subject but I find no value in it now. I analyse peoples words and actions as I see them without any preconceived notions or judgement of their intent or ability. This way I can act or react in an objective way which minimizes mistakes caused to emotions, miscomunications, or more importantly misjudgements. This doesn't mean I'm not capable of seeing other peoples abilities, but it does mean I won't underestimate them. I guess I'm naive like that...

Good luck to you OldTrader (not that I think you need it) and know in advance that I value your thoughts.
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Dear cohenmichaela,
I think you're doing a good job here. Although there's a strong criticism towards you, you do not appear to lose your temper and start another flame. What's more, you could also, as you said, think & read & learn from the critic, and responded calmly. This is the way people should behave. Frankly, you have very good manners and morals.

Some people tend to be overly sensitive and aggressive when they hear something which sounds negative. What you originally said is point out the problems of the customer service - they assume customers are wrong and pushing problems onto them first, leaving people feeling helpless and insulted. You simply suggest customer service may do it better if they try to respond friendly and work out the problem in a co-operative manner. You don't even put your comments and suggestion in an angry and grumbling way.

However some people will over-react anyway as they hear people saying some bad things on their supporting firm, no matter how you present this "negative issue" or how true the bad things are. They will again push the blame onto the commentator, with a lot of reasons like "you shouldn't expect that. It's not for...", "you should take care of mistakes or faults even if it's not yours", and so on.

It sounds like we should always adapt to the situation. We should never request for improvement. Although they may not notice themselves, they subconsciously feel you are wrong when you mention anything which may hurt the fame of the firm, no matter how true or reasonsable the fact/request is.

I don't know why they are reluctant to hear negative comments. One does not need to take negative comments so "negatively". One cannot improve if they don't know about their problems. No one is perfect. There's always room for improvement. What hurts for someone to point out one's own problem, if they are put it in a sincere way?

After all, cohenmichaela, I think you do it very right, candidly speaking. Your manners and morals are model for others to follow. It's not an exaggeration. People on the Internet should show some respect and courtesy to others even if we are anonymous.

My two cents anyway.
 
Just updating everyone to the status of this issue. I still have not received a response from IB for the original $6300 loss incurred due to their incorrect daily statement. I sent this to them moments ago. I'm hoping to hear back from them soon...



----It has now been over a month and a half since this ticket was opened. I understand that it takes time to review the details of this issue and resolve it but I fail to see why it has taken this long. Everytime I've inquired about the status I have been told to have patience, it is being reviewed, and the person reviewing it is in Switzerland. I have given ample time for IB to respond. Any further delays is completely unacceptable.

I would like this ticket escalated immediately. I find it ridiculous that it has taken this much time for someone at IB to give me a formal response.----
 
you just need to be patient. my experience is that they will do right by you. i wish ib were better as there are no efficiencies to be gained by taking months to resolve customer issues.

my customer service experiences this year:

1) incorrect order execution. i had an outstanding limit order for a stock and after a large dividend ib didn't reduce the limit price like they should have per nyse rules so the order was executed at an unfavorable price. after a bit over three months, ib made me whole on my losses due to the erroneous execution.

2) tax reporting issue. an interest payment was miscategorized as a qualified dividend on my 1099. they fixed it after a bit over four months.
 
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