IB is Refco 2.0!

[jimrockford]

Quote from nassau:

You obviously must of had a hard time with English.

Please go back, print each of my posts, take your time and compare. Use some crayons to underline and high lite for ease. NO where did I say all listed companies, including IB, are fraudulent, and that as a result, IB will continue to have legal problems and its stock price will drop! that is your interpretation and not what I said.

Everything you state about refco is hindsight.
If everyone knew what you are now stating do you think they would of been the largest and so successful. Do you think anyone would of underwrote the IPO and had institutional share participation etc etc
The 500 million made no difference to the day to day operations thus the reason it ran for so many years per IPO.
I agree once the shit hit the fan refco lost credibility but that was also fed by the media and the institutions who benefited while private shareholders lost. The stock had a 10 day moratorium place on it to only start trading 2-3 days later to be halted on a rally.?? long enough for a lot of the big boys to clean up. I have never seen where a stock was halted then allowed to trade and halted on a rally? total bs
I am not aware of one of the stock involved in backdating of options or that is/was out of nasdaq compliance delisted? why, not profitable.
There was no reason for us shareholders to lose funds the way we did but again that is my personal opinion and like you I am untitled to it.

I am very careful how and what I say unlike you.

I said and am saying we as traders have frauds committed on us daily by the corporations, brokers/banks etc
god man read or listen to the news, back dating of options, accounting errors, enron,refco, analysis updating or downgrades with no accountability or fiduciary responsibility etc.
I am guessing by your posts I am a lot older than you.
You know the definition of business...
being able to exact money from a man's pockets without resorting to violence.
that's what banks,brokers,insurance companies, mm, nyse specialist, slippage, gaps, and the corporate stocks we trade do to us. exact our funds with us having no recourse.

Do you actually even trade?
god help your mentor(s) if you have any.

w

I just wanted to acknowlege that you are continuing to babble your ignorance, even though I don't think you've said anything meriting any specific response on my part. Anybody can verify that you said what you said in this thread about IB, and then you later denied saying it, so any further repetition of that particular subject matter would waste everybody's time.

Oh, and by the way, in answer to your question, I do trade. I trade thru IB, and that is exactly why I am concerned about the possible consequences of your unfair and ignorant babbling about the company.

 

[nassau]

Quote from jimrockford:

I just wanted to acknowlege that you are continuing to babble your ignorance, even though I don't think you've said anything meriting any specific response on my part. Anybody can verify that you said what you said in this thread about IB, and then you later denied saying it, so any further repetition of that particular subject matter would waste everybody's time.

Oh, and by the way, in answer to your question, I do trade. I trade thru IB, and that is exactly why I am concerned about the possible consequences of your unfair and ignorant babbling about the company.

you are correct in that upon anyone with the ability to discern basic english reading our posts they will see how how it is you who is babbling.
All anyone needs to do is read almost any of your posts and your above and beyond call of duty defense of IB in almost any thread or post to know that obviously you are directly or indirectly involved with IB regardless of you being a trader. I am personally aware of several of the staff who trade. Some of your posts on other threads, you even state YOU require additional information before YOU can take it to IB. People/traders who post they have never had an issue or never had software issues with tws are liars as even IB in posts state they are trying to rectify issues etc never mind the countless threads that validate IB has issues. I try to maintain as much accuracy as possible when I post, I have posted many negative and positive posts with reference to IB. All brokers that I know of have issues.

You say it is unfair to compare IB and Refco. There are similarities, but that does not mean IB will fall, what I am saying is in most similar situations where lawyers, liars and litigation are involved the stock price drops regardless of who is right or wrong. I sincerely hope the issue dies as of yesterday, however if it was one's intention to create hype or suspicion or doubt one would of posted the facts like this

fact - both men owned and controlled private broker / dealer
fact - both entities were international with several subsidiaries
fact - both private entities had billions under management
fact - both men were very wealthy pre - IPO
fact - both men took their companies public for personal wealth and maintained a majority controlling shareholder position
fact - both men added additional funds to their? public companies from their personal assets once the issue became public ..I am guessing to create stability and to remove doubt.
fact - both entities ended up in litigation
fact - both situation resulted in a loss to current shareholders share value
fact-both entities were trading around the same bid/ask price when the situation occurred
fact - both entities had options available to trade almost immediately versus the std 3 plus months of a new IPO
fact - both situations resulted in a regulatory investigation
you decide fact or fiction
etc etc etc. it is very easy to find similarities....

so what..None of the above statements are misleading just plain facts,
that does not mean IB will fall, to the contrary I would say it is just par for the course in our line of business.
all corporations sooner or later have issues...back dating, accounting, inventory errors, which usually result in litigation and in a lot of cases the law firms know it is just cheaper to settle and have it go away. Where there are lawyers there are liars and liars lie for self benefit.
Banks/Brokers/Ecn's etc, do you really think it is a coincident that the 3rd Friday of ever month that they have server issues, bid/ask issues, nyse specialist not providing bid/ask prices on liquid stocks to well into the open, to have received hundreds of reprimands with no action, busy phone lines etc.
A conspiracy is where one has 3 things - control,intent,knowledge of which banks/brokers/ecns have, not us, they also in most cases have very deep pockets. I personally believe that they have full knowledge of their servers capacity, why have they not rectified the situation? why, a legal loop whole to again screw the little man.
For the record - I am affiliated with 3 private broker dealers here in Nassau and the UK and I can tell you it is criminal what one is allowed to get away with. One does not have to be found guilty to have committed a crime or fraud.
Worse case scenario I see TP taking the company back private if the share price hits x. He could do this via a pre announcement before the share price drops below what he believes the stock value should be.
Remember an employer is responsible for an employees /their actions, so if indeed an employee(s) ??? were negligent..notice that is not an allegations, in hedging or ?? hypo - placed them out of compliance then TP / his company would ultimately be accountable ..so perhaps he found out/ knew this and just anted up.
we will never really know the real truth as there is always at least 3 sides to the truth.
In closing, it is nice to see that IB stock is trying to form a consolidation 23.30-50 area. I personally see the stock trading range being 20-27 dollars over the next 12 months providing the issues dies and we are not continually updated with hype.
IB options offer little premium or incentive to play at present bid/ask so that imo is also good.

w

 

[jimrockford]

Quote from nassau:

*** All anyone needs to do is read almost any of your posts and your above and beyond call of duty defense of IB in almost any thread or post to know that obviously you are directly or indirectly involved with IB regardless of you being a trader. *** Some of your posts on other threads, you even state YOU require additional information before YOU can take it to IB. People/traders who post they have never had an issue or never had software issues with tws are liars as even IB in posts state they are trying to rectify issues etc never mind the countless threads that validate IB has issues.

You say it is unfair to compare IB and Refco. There are similarities, but that does not mean IB will fall, what I am saying is in most similar situations where lawyers, liars and litigation are involved the stock price drops regardless of who is right or wrong. *** Where there are lawyers there are liars and liars lie for self benefit.
Banks/Brokers/Ecn's etc, do you really think it is a coincident that the 3rd Friday of ever month that they have server issues, bid/ask issues, nyse specialist not providing bid/ask prices on liquid stocks to well into the open, to have received hundreds of reprimands with no action, busy phone lines etc.
A conspiracy is where one has 3 things - control,intent,knowledge of which banks/brokers/ecns have, not us, they also in most cases have very deep pockets. I personally believe that they have full knowledge of their servers capacity, why have they not rectified the situation? why, a legal loop whole to again screw the little man.
For the record - I am affiliated with 3 private broker dealers here in Nassau and the UK and I can tell you it is criminal what one is allowed to get away with. One does not have to be found guilty to have committed a crime or fraud.
Worse case scenario I see TP taking the company back private if the share price hits x. ***we will never really know the real truth as there is always at least 3 sides to the truth.

w

Nassau,

Your previous postings, in this thread, complain that you suffer many trading losses because of conspiracies. Let me suggest that your losses are perhaps not the result of conspiracies, but instead result from your own habit of neglecting to gather readily available facts, and then relying upon conspiracy theories and ignorance as a substitute for facts.

You are now directing your conspiracy theory babble against me, by suggesting that I work for IB, that I lied by denying IB has issues, and that I posted in other threads that I need more information before I can take certain issues to IB. All of these claims are absolutely false. My only association with IB is as a retail customer. I never denied IB has issues; in fact, I have often done quite the opposite, by raising issues and even starting threads critical of IB (in a spirit of constructive criticism). I simply never posted to anyone that I needed more information in order to take an issue to IB - you are obviously confusing me with an IB staff person.

You keep posting that we should regard IB with suspicion and doubt, because liars are involved with IB's recent trading loss. If liars truly are involved, then the only ones, as far as I can see, are you and anybody else who claims that this incident is evidence of dishonesty or impending collapse at IB.

 

[bsparkyman]

I, the thread originator never even said collapse or dishonesty. What he said. There are other brokers out there dude.

Quote from jimrockford:

Nassau,

Your previous postings, in this thread, complain that you suffer many trading losses because of conspiracies. Let me suggest that your losses are perhaps not the result of conspiracies, but instead result from your own habit of neglecting to gather readily available facts, and then relying upon conspiracy theories and ignorance as a substitute for facts.

You are now directing your conspiracy theory babble against me, by suggesting that I work for IB, that I lied by denying IB has issues, and that I posted in other threads that I need more information before I can take certain issues to IB. All of these claims are absolutely false. My only association with IB is as a retail customer. I never denied IB has issues; in fact, I have often done quite the opposite, by raising issues and even starting threads critical of IB (in a spirit of constructive criticism). I simply never posted to anyone that I needed more information in order to take an issue to IB - you are obviously confusing me with an IB staff person.

You keep posting that we should regard IB with suspicion and doubt, because liars are involved with IB's recent trading loss. If liars truly are involved, then the only ones, as far as I can see, are you and anybody else who claims that this incident is evidence of dishonesty or impending collapse at IB.

 

[jimrockford]

Quote from bsparkyman:

I, the thread originator never even said collapse or dishonesty. What he said. There are other brokers out there dude.

You entitled this thread "IB is Refco 2.0!". You even included an exclamation point in your title. Others then posted into your thread, revealing the utter lack of any basis whatsoever for your assertion. You now have the nerve to deny that your title suggests collapse or dishonesty. How pathetic.

 

[bsparkyman]

You are ignorant, there is basis for comparison to Refco, read the posts again. You are the one drawing conclusions, or connecting the dots.

Quote from jimrockford:

You entitled this thread "IB is Refco 2.0!". You even included an exclamation point in your title. Others then posted into your thread, revealing the utter lack of any basis whatsoever for your assertion. You now have the nerve to deny that your title suggests collapse or dishonesty. How pathetic.

 

[nassau]

Jimmy jimmy jimmy,
haven't you learnt by now that all information is bias? and as you obviously interpret my posts incorrectly or too your bias; you confirm that it all comes down to one's perception.
I have and anyone who trades have losses regardless of how much due diligence is done as obviously all traders have experienced some form on intervention that disrupts the trade, especially if one trades currency.
If you think your broker is your friend, so be it.
After reading a lot of your posts, If you don't have a relationship with IB you should as you seem to know more than most of the staff I / we have spoken to over the last years never mind the fact you seem to have ample time to post. Remember, life is blocks of time for blocks of money, it may help you in your retirement plan. Can't hurt to diversify.
Contradiction coming, You are correct, you post many times that IB has stated or prints information that is contradictory. RE - IB ? is that not misleading, lies by omission.
Not once did I say IB will fall, I do not believe it will and have stated many times that, while you in your posts, in the disclaimer thread have / would of created more doubt and suspicion then anything I have said.
I have not stated that this situation will result in IB's fall but have posted facts of similarity as small as the timing of both having issues within a few months of their IPO's.
I believed the issue will / would cause a retracement, I am / was correct as we have retraced approx. 10 dollars from high. Guess what another similarity as refco fell from 27-28 to 17-18. I acknowledge Refco's was a much faster decline.
Further, I do not have enough information never mind accurate information to say where the blame lies but obviously even you can not say that this incident was / is totally above board? otherwise why the pending litigation threat from TP?
Dishonesty, I'll take that bet! Conspiracy? to defraud IB? and others? we will all know in the end? well that's not true, we will only know what they tell us after all you believe everything your gov't., broker,corporations tell you, right, oh I forgot you do.

adios amigo,

Quote from jimrockford:

Nassau,

Your previous postings, in this thread, complain that you suffer many trading losses because of conspiracies. Let me suggest that your losses are perhaps not the result of conspiracies, but instead result from your own habit of neglecting to gather readily available facts, and then relying upon conspiracy theories and ignorance as a substitute for facts.

You are now directing your conspiracy theory babble against me, by suggesting that I work for IB, that I lied by denying IB has issues, and that I posted in other threads that I need more information before I can take certain issues to IB. All of these claims are absolutely false. My only association with IB is as a retail customer. I never denied IB has issues; in fact, I have often done quite the opposite, by raising issues and even starting threads critical of IB (in a spirit of constructive criticism). I simply never posted to anyone that I needed more information in order to take an issue to IB - you are obviously confusing me with an IB staff person.

You keep posting that we should regard IB with suspicion and doubt, because liars are involved with IB's recent trading loss. If liars truly are involved, then the only ones, as far as I can see, are you and anybody else who claims that this incident is evidence of dishonesty or impending collapse at IB.

 

[jimrockford]

Quote from nassau:

Jimmy jimmy jimmy,
haven't you learnt by now that all information is bias? and as you obviously interpret my posts incorrectly or too your bias; you confirm that it all comes down to one's perception.
I have and anyone who trades have losses regardless of how much due diligence is done as obviously all traders have experienced some form on intervention that disrupts the trade, especially if one trades currency.
If you think your broker is your friend, so be it.
After reading a lot of your posts, If you don't have a relationship with IB you should as you seem to know more than most of the staff I / we have spoken to over the last years never mind the fact you seem to have ample time to post. Remember, life is blocks of time for blocks of money, it may help you in your retirement plan. Can't hurt to diversify.
Contradiction coming, You are correct, you post many times that IB has stated or prints information that is contradictory. RE - IB ? is that not misleading, lies by omission.
Not once did I say IB will fall, I do not believe it will and have stated many times that, while you in your posts, in the disclaimer thread have / would of created more doubt and suspicion then anything I have said.
I have not stated that this situation will result in IB's fall but have posted facts of similarity as small as the timing of both having issues within a few months of their IPO's.
I believed the issue will / would cause a retracement, I am / was correct as we have retraced approx. 10 dollars from high. Guess what another similarity as refco fell from 27-28 to 17-18. I acknowledge Refco's was a much faster decline.
Further, I do not have enough information never mind accurate information to say where the blame lies but obviously even you can not say that this incident was / is totally above board? otherwise why the pending litigation threat from TP?
Dishonesty, I'll take that bet! Conspiracy? to defraud IB? and others? we will all know in the end? well that's not true, we will only know what they tell us after all you believe everything your gov't., broker,corporations tell you, right, oh I forgot you do.

adios amigo,

I think that the similarities which you described, between Refco and IB, are silly and irrelevant. I think any reasonable person, paying attention, would find your comparison laughable. The shame is that those who are not paying close attention might very likely be misled by you and your efforts to shroud IB in a dark cloud of suspicion.

It is also ridiculous for you to accuse IB of lying, simply because it often provides contradictory information. Contradictory info comes from IB because of frequently misinformed lowest-level customer service employees, and because of frequently outdated or imprecise documentation, but not because of intentional dishonesty by the company. These problems with contradictory information are outweighed by the great strengths at IB, which include top-notch order execution and very low commissions.

Your repeated statements that I have a "relationship" with IB are nothing but lies. I am a customer, and nothing else to IB, and I am defending IB against your type of bullcrap because I don't want it to damage IB's ability to continue serving me and its other customers. Plus I find your bullcrap nauseating.

 

[nassau]

Quote from jimrockford:

I think that the similarities which you described, between Refco and IB, are silly and irrelevant. I think any reasonable person, paying attention, would find your comparison laughable. The shame is that those who are not paying close attention might very likely be misled by you and your efforts to shroud IB in a dark cloud of suspicion.

It is also ridiculous for you to accuse IB of lying, simply because it often provides contradictory information. Contradictory info comes from IB because of frequently misinformed lowest-level customer service employees, and because of frequently outdated or imprecise documentation, but not because of intentional dishonesty by the company. These problems with contradictory information are outweighed by the great strengths at IB, which include top-notch order execution and very low commissions.

Your repeated statements that I have a "relationship" with IB are nothing but lies. I am a customer, and nothing else to IB, and I am defending IB against your type of bullcrap because I don't want it to damage IB's ability to continue serving me and its other customers. Plus I find your bullcrap nauseating.

You find the fact both men were filthy rich prior to THEIR IPO'S and the fact both entities ran into issues within 3 months of being public which resulted in litigation and substantial losses to THEIR shareholders laughable!!!???

You think it is acceptable for any corporation that is dealing with the public or otherwise to allow information to be circulated knowing it not to be accurate especially in the financial field, okay? instead of tighting their corporate protocol. It imo is criminal, whether in the financial field or otherwise. No one is being held accountable or responsible for such intolerant / tolerated behavior. They all should have a fiduciary responsibility. Corporate behavior like the above results in ignorant persons such as yourself passing the blame/responsibility on as THEIR staff is uninformed or not accurately trained as ethical? and excuse that entity from reprimand or recourse as you are getting top-notched executions and very low commissions? I would call that slippage as all of the above does end up affecting one's bottom line. But as I have posted many times, the above is just one of the everyday hurtles one experiences in this line of business, par for the course as most of us don't have deep pockets or the time to hold them accountable.
I have dealt with several brokers over the years and ALL HAVE ISSUES, IB is not going anywhere.
but I would suggest you read the thread, how to rob the individual investor and then you can go and throw up!

In closing, I have found over the past few years that IB's support staff are much more informed, able and willing to assist trade issues. I am an IB customer and will continue to be one and Will pick up shares of IB twenty dollar area as previously posted.
You give me and others far to much credit with being able to taint IB's credibility here. This is just a traders message / information board. IB has its own agenda and may or may not take into consideration what anyone of us posts.

tag your it

w

 

[jimrockford]

Quote from nassau:

You find the fact both men were filthy rich prior to THEIR IPO'S and the fact both entities ran into issues within 3 months of being public which resulted in litigation and substantial losses to THEIR shareholders laughable!!!???

You think it is acceptable for any corporation that is dealing with the public or otherwise to allow information to be circulated knowing it not to be accurate especially in the financial field, okay? instead of tighting their corporate protocol. It imo is criminal, whether in the financial field or otherwise. No one is being held accountable or responsible for such intolerant / tolerated behavior. They all should have a fiduciary responsibility. Corporate behavior like the above results in ignorant persons such as yourself passing the blame/responsibility on as THEIR staff is uninformed or not accurately trained as ethical? and excuse that entity from reprimand or recourse as you are getting top-notched executions and very low commissions? I would call that slippage as all of the above does end up affecting one's bottom line. But as I have posted many times, the above is just one of the everyday hurtles one experiences in this line of business, par for the course as most of us don't have deep pockets or the time to hold them accountable.
I have dealt with several brokers over the years and ALL HAVE ISSUES, IB is not going anywhere.
but I would suggest you read the thread, how to rob the individual investor and then you can go and throw up!

In closing, I have found over the past few years that IB's support staff are much more informed, able and willing to assist trade issues. I am an IB customer and will continue to be one and Will pick up shares of IB twenty dollar area as previously posted.
You give me and others far to much credit with being able to taint IB's credibility here. This is just a traders message / information board. IB has its own agenda and may or may not take into consideration what anyone of us posts.

tag your it

w

Nassau,

your facts, conclusions, and innuendoes, once again, are wrong.

You are wrong to say that that this incident with Altana options resulted in "substantial losses" to IB shareholders. The entire loss was reimbursed by Chairman Peterffy. You are wrong to say that the incident resulted in litigation. You are wrong to say that there are any meaningful similarities between IB and Refco, which might justify a comparison between the two companies, or suggest that IB is dishonest or financially unstable.

You also allege that IB's sometimes inaccurate documentation, and sometimes inaccurate information from lowest-level customer service representatives, are "criminal". This is just an absolutely ludicrous accusation. IB's brokerage services are highly technical and extremely complex in nature. It would be extremely expensive for IB to make sure that all of its CS reps have the brains and the training to understand all the finer technical points of IB's software and services. It appears that IB has made a business decision that its customers would be better served by low commissions, rather than by staffing its CS dept. exclusively with graduates from Harvard and M.I.T. I would agree that IB should devote greater resources to more accurate and more current documentation, and I think this would help cut costs as well as benefit customers, but it is totally ludicrous and shrill to suggest that IB has any criminal intent because its highly intricate documentation is imperfect.

Do you profit in some way by smearing IB with false accusations? Do you work for a competing broker? Are you short IB shares or calls, or long IB puts? Do you have some other reason for wanting to damage IB? Are you just unable to admit that you were wrong?