IB HSI futures position data was incorrect- now i'm screwed. any recourse?

[gangof4]

Quote from cashola:

Anybody with a measure of trader kindness will surely sympathize with your situation. I might add a couple of comments on this with no self aggrandizing sardonics.

I trade many markets with IB, many trades a day, and I habitually bring up the "Audit" (expanded) to view the confirmation #'s and other details.

thanks for your input. yeah, i save those too when i think there might be an issue. i could fill out compensation tickets 3x per week and probably win between time and sale data, the log and the execution page evidence. reality is i don't have the time to fight over a few hundred dollars. the one time i really pursued it (which you have to do, as trouble tickets are never responded to in my experience), i did so on principal cause it was so obviously their f-up. when they finally looked at it, they offered compensation for the amount it cost me.

this one isn't as cut and dried, but the dollar amount makes it impossible for me to just accept.

 

[gangof4]

Quote from joesan:

Hi, gangof4

Just read this. My condolence to your loss. I still have memory of your last hedge of unclosed position of HSI with STW. Understanding STW has been much stronger due to the stepping down of the unpopular current leader. But did you consider hedging with SGXNK, it was in line with HSI and the margin level is relatively low. The ideal hedge is 1:2, you could short 1-2 contracts of SGXNK and partially hedge the position. I think there are also options of SGXNK, if you use it to hedge the margin level was even lower.

Regard the issue you described in the original post, I had similar experience recently. I closed one position in HSI and the position number on the TWS was unchanged. Then the TWs pinked out. I grabbed the phone and called IB, they confirmed that the position had been closed. Luckily it was long before the close of the day. From then on , they were several similar incidence and I know there may be 1-20 seconds delay on the excecution report of tWS nowadays. It was 1-3 seconds before.

I set up a new rule for my HSi trading. Close all my position 5 minutes before close, and if I have to hold the position into the last minute, use market orders to close it , and don't care about the TWS trade report/position number in that last minute.

thanks Joe.

yeah, i NEVER trade anywhere near that close to the close- usually stop 30 minutes before as i have a tendency to lose my gains in the free for all at the close.. the one time i do, this happens- murphy's law.

hindsight, i should have hedged with something. i was a bit stunned by the whole thing- thought i thought it out clearly, but probably didn't. because of what you mentioned, i eliminated STW right off. SGXNK hasn't correlated well lately, as the $/yen is driving that whilst HSI has been much more correlated to Shanghai lately (since Shanghai's been tanking, they're more coupled (again) than they were for a while). that's why an ES hedge was tricky too. had visions of getting killed in the HSI position AND getting killed in the hedge too. of course, in the rear view mirror, all but the STW would have covered me.

like someone posted, the HSI needs an overnight session- that alone would have solved this problem and others in the past.

 

[MandelbrotSet]

Quote from gangof4:

when you kick at somebody when they're down, you're a dick. you're either disconnected from reality/stupid to not understand how your condescending post was inflammatory and would piss me off or.... you were trying to piss me off. either way, you're a dick. this is not 'name calling'- this is stating fact.

to psychoanalyze my trading mentality was pompous and in very poor taste. to deride me because a data error caused to me lose $14000 is a fine insight into what kind of an individual you are.

as to trading ability. i would be more than willing to bet real money that, since i started trading futures full time on 01 june 2007, i have outperformed you. prior to wednesday, i could count the # of down days i've had in the past 5 months on one hand. i am very disciplined. much of what you wrote in your post is incorrect- you failed to properly read and/or comprehend what the problem was and the timeline of events. i did not size up because i was down. what i said is that, in the bad timing category, it jsut so happened that wed. was the day i decided to finally size up. if you've ever done this, it is tough to move from your comfort zone, but necessary to move to the next level. it was just inopportune timing. if not for this, the point was, this problem would have been with being long 1 HSI, maybe 2- not 3.

why i wasted the time to respond to you, i don't know...

There you go again.

I wasn't kicking you when you were down.

I was pointing out the errors in your trading (trading during the last 20 seconds of the HSI trading session, or any trading session for that matter, is a mistake waiting to happen).

The errors of your psychology (trading to desperately make a certain amount, or revenge trading, is never a good thing ... or haven't you learned that by now?).

And the errors of your blaming IB (your thread is quickly becoming a soap opera where the latest well wisher comes by commiserate you on your loss and turns around and tells you that you were wrong, or how you could have/should have done things differently. To which you reply "I can't accept being wrong, I can't accept this loss. It's all IB's fault, and the only reason they wouldn't correct is because I'm too small potatoes").

The one who is the dick isn't me for pointing out the seive of logic you are weaving to justify your loss, it's you for even starting this asinine thread ... and trying to keep it going in a pathetic attempt to extort money from Interactive Brokers.

Later Dick.

P.S. I understood your increase in position sizing very well, and the effect it would have on your trading psycholgoy. It's a pity that you didn't.

 

[nolajy]

A loss is a loss. A trader needs to understand that technological issues will happen with any broker using any system at any time. It is all part of the risk. Losing sucks.. but learning from it is the most important thing. Everyone needs to stop blaming the platform /IB and look at themselves. I am guessing you will go market on an exit near the close, and most likely will exit sooner than you did this time. Everyone on this board that actually trades has been in your position and some of us have had it even worse. I read the posts here and from what I can see you and everyone else here is soo EMOTIONAL about this that I cannot believe it. It is done.. move on .. change brokers.. change your exit time and order type. The money isn't coming back to you. The trade is over.. This post hopefully will be over..

The only benefit I see from this post is

1. DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL
2. EXIT with MARKET ORDERS
3. DO NOT Trade above your means*
* It's obvious this 14K loss was way too much for this guy to swallow at this point. The loss of time and enrgy with this post
he could have recoverd the 14K today trading on Globex.. HSI trades very similar to CME indexes.. except the HSI is much more volatile and has much longer moves.. MA cross can work well in HSI

This guy stated in another post how many contracts a day he trades in the HSI.. coupel hundred or something..
well sorry to break this down to everyone.. but
IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY TRADE a couple hundred contracts a day
over a long period then a $ 14,000 dollar loss should be peanuts!! Now look at all the time and emotion this has sapped out of so many people.

 

[gangof4]

Quote from nolajy:

A loss is a loss. A trader needs to understand that technological issues will happen with any broker using any system at any time. It is all part of the risk. Losing sucks.. but learning from it is the most important thing. Everyone needs to stop blaming the platform /IB and look at themselves. I am guessing you will go market on an exit near the close, and most likely will exit sooner than you did this time. Everyone on this board that actually trades has been in your position and some of us have had it even worse. I read the posts here and from what I can see you and everyone else here is soo EMOTIONAL about this that I cannot believe it. It is done.. move on .. change brokers.. change your exit time and order type. The money isn't coming back to you. The trade is over.. This post hopefully will be over..

The only benefit I see from this post is

1. DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL
2. EXIT with MARKET ORDERS
3. DO NOT Trade above your means*
* It's obvious this 14K loss was way too much for this guy to swallow at this point. The loss of time and enrgy with this post
he could have recoverd the 14K today trading on Globex.. HSI trades very similar to CME indexes.. except the HSI is much more volatile and has much longer moves.. MA cross can work well in HSI

This guy stated in another post how many contracts a day he trades in the HSI.. coupel hundred or something..
well sorry to break this down to everyone.. but
IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY TRADE a couple hundred contracts a day
over a long period then a $ 14,000 dollar loss should be peanuts!! Now look at all the time and emotion this has sapped out of so many people.

if you don't like the thread, don't click on it. why are you bothering to read it???

$14m is a larger loss than i have ever had- frankly, i don't want to be prepared for losses like that. my trading method would not allow for such a loss as it would mean i ignored my rules and discipline- something i do not do. i'm not sure at what point $14,000 becomes peanuts. even if you're making low 7 figures, 14m is over 3 days of work. 3 days of my life isn't peanuts. perhaps you make 8 figures; or is it 9...

market orders? yeah, spoken by a dumb ass who has never even entered an order in the HSI. *maybe* a position trader could get away with that in the HSI- certainly not an active trader. try trading the HSI with your market orders and let us all know how you come out.

i will agree (duh) that one cannot trade on emotion. i will admit that the circumstances did affect my trading last night- i was up 5m from the initial loss and up almost 10m from my low, then got too involved in trying to eradicate the 14m in one day- not so much emotional, as a poor mindset. i have monthly goals but not really daily- take what the market gives and not press on days where it just isn't there- i violated that in the afternoon session and it cost me.

btw, in light of the nauture of your post, you're really kinda a nut case if you came back to read this reply! :eek:

 

[gangof4]

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

There you go again.

I wasn't kicking you when you were down.

I was pointing out the errors in your trading (trading during the last 20 seconds of the HSI trading session, or any trading session for that matter, is a mistake waiting to happen).

The errors of your psychology (trading to desperately make a certain amount, or revenge trading, is never a good thing ... or haven't you learned that by now?).

And the errors of your blaming IB (your thread is quickly becoming a soap opera where the latest well wisher comes by commiserate you on your loss and turns around and tells you that you were wrong, or how you could have/should have done things differently. To which you reply "I can't accept being wrong, I can't accept this loss. It's all IB's fault, and the only reason they wouldn't correct is because I'm too small potatoes").

The one who is the dick isn't me for pointing out the seive of logic you are weaving to justify your loss, it's you for even starting this asinine thread ... and trying to keep it going in a pathetic attempt to extort money from Interactive Brokers.

Later Dick.

P.S. I understood your increase in position sizing very well, and the effect it would have on your trading psycholgoy. It's a pity that you didn't.

what does this thread have to do with what IB does. what, are you one of their assigned thread watchers?

i guess you're not going to take me up on the trading performance challenge there, sport.

 

[nolajy]

Psychological warfare.. i love it.. yes i came back to see your response which only further cemented my original view of how emotional you and how this is everyone else's fault. If you are gambling in vegas and lose big are you this upset? Come on really ? 14K isn't the end of the world, but it is a pricey tutoring session. Goodluck.. and I am honest.. soyes i did come back to read this post.. I guess I am a nut.

A 14k POSITIVE NUT ( JUST KIDDING ITS A JOKE)

i HOPE YOU LEARNED ENOUGH TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Have a good weekend and take a few days off

 

[MandelbrotSet]

Quote from gangof4:

if you don't like the thread, don't click on it. why are you bothering to read it???

$14m is a larger loss than i have ever had- frankly, i don't want to be prepared for losses like that. my trading method would not allow for such a loss as it would mean i ignored my rules and discipline- something i do not do. i'm not sure at what point $14,000 becomes peanuts. even if you're making low 7 figures, 14m is over 3 days of work. 3 days of my life isn't peanuts. perhaps you make 8 figures; or is it 9...

market orders? yeah, spoken by a dumb ass who has never even entered an order in the HSI. *maybe* a position trader could get away with that in the HSI- certainly not an active trader. try trading the HSI with your market orders and let us all know how you come out.

i will agree (duh) that one cannot trade on emotion. i will admit that the circumstances did affect my trading last night- i was up 5m from the initial loss and up almost 10m from my low, then got too involved in trying to eradicate the 14m in one day- not so much emotional, as a poor mindset. i have monthly goals but not really daily- take what the market gives and not press on days where it just isn't there- i violated that in the afternoon session and it cost me.

btw, in light of the nauture of your post, you're really kinda a nut case if you came back to read this reply! :eek:

Hey, you should reserve these types of replies for my posts!

If you respond like this to everyone who comes by and cricticizes your sophomoric trading the way you have to nolajy, people are going to start to think you're just an arrogant tool driven by greed who can't see that he was wrong ... while it's crystal clear to everyone else.

 

[MandelbrotSet]

Quote from gangof4:

what does this thread have to do with what IB does. what, are you one of their assigned thread watchers?

i guess you're not going to take me up on the trading performance challenge there, sport.

LOL, I didn't realize you had issued one.

Oh, you mean the comment where you said that you've been trading futures since January of '08 or some such thing?

LOL, you're obviously kinda new and have been enjoying a run of luck ... no need to tell us that. This thead that you've started has provided more than enough information for us to be able to figure that much out.

But it does help IB and its representatives put your situation in context. If I were you'd I'd focus on trying to resolve your situation, because you're looking like an ass, and not only will IB not be compensating you, but nobody will be coming by to commsierate with you either ...

P.S. ROTFLMAO, you're issuing trading challenges while blowing your trading discipline, blowing your cool, blowing your stash, and insisting that everything is all Interactive Broker's fault.

Elite Trader, you just can't make this shit up.

 

[gangof4]

Quote from nolajy:

Psychological warfare.. i love it.. yes i came back to see your response which only further cemented my original view of how emotional you and how this is everyone else's fault. If you are gambling in vegas and lose big are you this upset? Come on really ? 14K isn't the end of the world, but it is a pricey tutoring session. Goodluck.. and I am honest.. soyes i did come back to read this post.. I guess I am a nut.

A 14k POSITIVE NUT ( JUST KIDDING ITS A JOKE)

i HOPE YOU LEARNED ENOUGH TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Have a good weekend and take a few days off

i knew you'd come back and read it- wasn't sure if you'd cop to it by posting- good on you for the honesty- post made me laugh.

if you read all my rambling psots, you'd see i don't take a 'everyone else's fault' stance. my point is that the IB excuse that the fault lies with the HKFE- that cannot be the reason, for the reasons i pointed out- even the IB manager had no retort to how i could have no open orders showing and it somehow being HKFE's fault. when all the info in front of you says you have no open orders, you're short 3 contracts and it's 15 seconds til the exchange closes- what do YOU do? if you NEVER gamble with overnight positions (i don't), you close it. when you do and TWS shows you are flat and then, after the close, 3 long contracts pop up out of nowhere, do you just shrug and say "well, whatever this costs me, it's 'peanuts' ", or do you want a fucking answer from ib as to wtf just happened? i imagine if it were your $, maybe it would have to be $114m for you, you would call ib and want a f-ing explanation and more. am i wrong? doubt it.

ok, this has been beaten to death...