IB fill reporting DELAYED

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Quote from pretzel:



This is what happened:
1. I have an active sell limit at 978.25
2. the market moves past 978.25
3. I dont have any indication on the TWS that my order was filled
4. I thought my computer or TWS has a glitch
5. I cancelled the order
6. Sold another one at market.
7. My position says 0
8. The canceled order was stuck all the time - contract is 0 but the line did not disappear
9. I got a phone call from IB saying I have a sell at 978.25 which was not reported ( 2 hours after the fill)
10. The fill was added to my TWS another hour later


pretzel
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Okay, so first, I'm sorry you got screwed on the trade.

However, there are two things you did wrong:
1- When you had an active order and the market solidly moves through your price, this is a very near certain indication (on Globex at least) that you are filled.

2- When the market moves through your order without receiving a fill, you should then be on the phone immediately.

If the TWS gave you an OUT and THEN they called to tell you of the fill, THEN that would be bullshit. In this case, I would expect to have to keep the trade, and also expect to get the fill the the mkt moved thru.
 
Quote from RAMOUTAR:

1- When the order does not come back to you as filled, there is a fundamental problem with their system. All orders come back thorugh NQDS, a dedicated line that b/d's must have in place with Nasdaq and SIAC with NYSE. If they blame it on someone other than themselves, that would mean that all of their customers got turned by the Phillips head. Which is still ridiculous.

2- Problems like that were commonplace in the mid-to late 90's, now ITS UNACCEPTABLE.

3- Call them, and ask for the "GENERAL SECURITIES PRINCIPAL, or the Series 24", and as diplomatically as you can, tell him/her that you've been fleeced and you intend on filing a complaint with the NASD. Watch how fast the song changes to the Mamas and The Papas.

4- Their system should have NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER, allowed you to put in another sell, which make you NET SHORT. I've helped execution platforms, and rule number one is don't allow a second order on the same side, if the first one didn't come back.

Either way you're in the right. Don't let that crap happen.

Let me know what happens, or if you need more advice.

Best,
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What are you talking about? First, he was talking of Globex, so NASD, SIAC, NYSE, and Series 24 do not apply.

Second, regarding your point #4, I certainly wouldn't want to use a system which wouldn't let me enter anorder because some other order was in limbo.
 
Quote from RAMOUTAR:

1)IB?s business model is based on the Internet. That means that IB must expect a moment of failure on the client side, every CCIE I?ve run into when leading the build of trading platforms spent much of their time figuring out the ?What If?s? and planned for them. If they were choked by a budget, they trained their tech supports on how to handle. Other companies that offer the same take that into consideration, and that?s why they ?STREAM? the information, or have balance loaded servers for outbound reports. No different than getting a web video/radio broadcast over the internet, and when the client side fails for a moment, the information is received when the client side is resolved.

2)I?ve worked as a market maker, institutional trader before trading full time, and Yes, I would get very angry if I couldn?t enter multi-same side orders when working and order or trading a side. However, the systems that I have worked with and help create built two distinct pipes, permissions and backends, one for retail and one for institutional. The distinction of ?sophisticated? ended when direct access came on the scene. INCA used to be for ?sophisticated? trader and they bought ISLD which started out as ?unsophisticated?. Now ?unsophisticated? is the trader who gets updated quotes from a newspaper.

I?m a veteran trader, and I have a ?decent? handle on technology. So I say have two different permissions: one for the retail trader, and one for the ?SOPHISTICATED? trader. Retail is happy, and instit is happy. Here?s what I told a team of programmers that built the very FIRST point and click direct access system, ?Don?t guarantee me that it won?t happen again, just guarantee me that you?ll try fix it, to try and prevent it from happening again, and tell me you?ll look into it ASAP if it happens again?.
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1. I don't think you are in a position to make productive comments on IB's business model. While our chairman nor the rest of us would ever rest on our laurels, we have been extremely successful and I don't think it comes from being lucky. We've obviously done something right.

You're trying to bring into the discussion issues that have nothing to do with the case that started this thread. Load balancing, streaming, etc wouldn't have made a difference (BTW, you know nothing of IB's network and I thus find it interesting that you seem to insinuate that we don't manage our routing properly or load balance our network traffic).

2. We'll disagree on this one. IMO, margin should be the determinant - given an excellent risk mgmt system. IB's margin practices and risk management are amongst the best and most conservative in the industry. Money up front, auto-liq, etc. Why should someone have to trade with a handicap if they don't have a multi-million dollar deposit?

You mention in many of your posts that you're a veteran trader. Just in case you think you're dealing with newbies...You're not the only "veteran" on these boards (I've got you by a few years - but of course that doesn't make me any better or worse). I'll also add that I've got a decent handle on technology - you're not alone there either. You might be a fine educator but a good teacher would get all the facts before making blanket statements..
 
Quote from def:



1. I don't think you are in a position to make productive comments on IB's business model. While our chairman nor the rest of us would ever rest on our laurels, we have been extremely successful and I don't think it comes from being lucky. We've obviously done something right.

You're trying to bring into the discussion issues that have nothing to do with the case that started this thread. Load balancing, streaming, etc wouldn't have made a difference (BTW, you know nothing of IB's network and I thus find it interesting that you seem to insinuate that we don't manage our routing properly or load balance our network traffic).

2. We'll disagree on this one. IMO, margin should be the determinant - given an excellent risk mgmt system. IB's margin practices and risk management are amongst the best and most conservative in the industry. Money up front, auto-liq, etc. Why should someone have to trade with a handicap if they don't have a multi-million dollar deposit?

You mention in many of your posts that you're a veteran trader. Just in case you think you're dealing with newbies...You're not the only "veteran" on these boards (I've got you by a few years - but of course that doesn't make me any better or worse). I'll also add that I've got a decent handle on technology - you're not alone there either. You might be a fine educator but a good teacher would get all the facts before making blanket statements..
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Saying that IB's business model is based on the Internet, is a very accurate statement. How else do you receive and transmit information, Pony Express? (C'mon def, smile, even a phony smile). I know absolutely nothing about IBs tech infrastructure, and nor do I know that it was IB's fault in this case. The one thing I do know is that direct access for equites was around a hell of a lot longer than futures an commodities embraced the same. Most subsequent systems, used the very same mistakes and proof of concept of the predecessor to build their won. IB has done an awesome job, in the face of market meltdown they grab the bull not by the horns, but the nads, and grabbed market share. As I don't use IB, many of my colleagues do, some love it and some hate it (at times). Then again all traders, love AND hate their systems.

My intent was to offer advice, not get into a mudslingfest. Apparently Pretzel had come to ET to get answers, why didn't s/he get it from IB? (I'm sure Pretzel's was smart enough to call) the situation was one of a technical issue, the events of which you and I do not fully have. The one thing is for sure, Pretzel had a problem, and didn't get a phone call until @ HOURS LATER. I've become an educator, because I became a successful trader, because I'm a trader and educator with newbies and veterans alike. My experience in the industry does not make me any better or worse just the same. I've been doing trading and teaching for a while, and humble enough to say that I still have a lot more to learn. Isn't that why we're all here?
 
Didn't mean for this to be a mud slinger at all. Tone of my messages will vary depending on my time, hour of the day etc. Nothing personal.

Internet is only part of it. VPN,'s and lease lines also play a large part. But yes if you want to look at the overall scope, yes the brokerage depends on the internet. Keep in mind that problems like the one mentioned on this thread are few and far between. I'd imagine that they are < .0001 of orders. More on that below.

I wish I could say that the futures exchanges learned from the equity mistakes. By that logic you would expect all equity exchanges to be equally fast, accurate and reliable. But why is ISLAND so good why others who came around after are so poor. All futures exchanges are not created equal. Even the same backend software system can vary greatly from market to market depending on the version number, infrastructure, allowed levels of throughput, etc.

Back to pretzel: you do raise a good point. i've had some interaction with him in the past and know he is a bright guy. the fact that he didn't contact CS should be looked at as our problem not his. Let assume though that there was no simple way to know about the order from the CME in this case. The question then becomes - if orders like this occur a tiny fraction of a percent of the time you need to make the case - does it make economic sense to apply resources to solving this problem or working on another project. I'll raise the point to see if it's possible to more fully automate any "lost" traffic. However, when an exchange needs to be contacted and humans need to intervene, it is difficult to speed up the processing time.
 
Quote from RAMOUTAR:



Apparently Pretzel had come to ET to get answers, why didn't s/he get it from IB? (I'm sure Pretzel's was smart enough to call) the situation was one of a technical issue, the events of which you and I do not fully have. The one thing is for sure, Pretzel had a problem, and didn't get a phone call until @ HOURS LATER. I've become an educator, because I became a successful trader, because I'm a trader and educator with newbies and veterans alike. My experience in the industry does not make me any better or worse just the same. I've been doing trading and teaching for a while, and humble enough to say that I still have a lot more to learn. Isn't that why we're all here?
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Since you are an educator, I'm sure you wouldn't attempt to give someone an "answer" without first knowing all the facts, correct? Without having all the facts, it's not really an answer is it? To some questions, there are no readily available answers.

While his situation is unfortunate, it is similar to a computer freezing up. The "answer" is that you need to reboot. While you may be able to figure out the cause - and there certainly is a cause - just as with his situation, the real answer will be very tough to obtain. If this happens to him or anyone else for that matter - consistently, then there is something for IB to address and work with.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There is. You have to look at it from IB's point of view. If you place 100 orders and everything works perfectly, then the next one experiences this problem and the next hundred are fine, what was the problem?

Reporting it is the right thing to do. IB is good about working on these types of things and constantly making things better. The last thing they want is CS lines backed up and people complaining. In the meantime, reboot.
 
Thanks again to everybody who answered.

I think my problem is that I was not aware I had a problem at that time (because that was the first time it happened to me). Now I'm wiser. So, the lesson - when in doubt, bring up the Live Rep chat.

Sorry, def, about this. I was pissed off at that time and just wanted to cool off. Can any moderator close this thread?

pretzel
 
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