IB data fees and staff contradictory replies

This thread is interesting! People are responding to the thread actively which unfortunately induce some flame wars, but I'm afraid the arguments are still off the point.

Arguing over other matters
Several respondants commented why the OP didn't subscribe to the data to get rid of the pop-up (to solve the problem). They didn't understand why the OP couldn't afford a small amount of fee. I think they missed the point of the OP mentioned in the first paragraph he would want to substitute third-party data vendor for the broker's. Most importantly I believe the price of the data doesn't concern the OP because the OP said in the second post, "After all data subscription itself isn't a big deal. But the way how it does business is." It is the course not the price which pisses off the OP.

The real gist of the thread
I believe what the OP truly wants to bring up is "IB is not a broker to trust". All mentioned in the first post are not truly questions. They are the points to explain why he believes IB is not a broker to trust. It is because he said, "IB is a brokerage which may even do something to hurt customers' benefits for their own" in the conclusion. However the OP lacks communication skills. He stuffed up the thread with many points and questions. He can't get the message over to the public since the gist isn't stood out well.

I would imagine the OP asked the customer service about data subscription. They answered it was no problem to trade without data subscription. It turned out to be false unfortunately. IB was a liar in his eyes and he got pissed off so much. That's why he concluded, "IB is a brokerage which may even do something to hurt customers' benefits for their own". Otherwise I don't understand why he would get into a fuss.

Let's get to the point
Let's simplify the matter and get to the point. What's the true cause of all those quarrels and arguments? All are caused by the little popup (a warning to trade without data subscription) which shows up every time he submits the order. All unnecessary quarrels and arguments will come to a full stop if a nice checkbox "Do not show me again" is added to the popup. Simple enough?

Let's get it fixed
What we need to do now is to inform IB to fix it. You have contacted them already in vain so Features Poll is worth a trial. Don't be misled by the name itself. Strange to say, Features Poll also features bug reports. ;) Believe me! You won't act strange even if you send bug reports there.
(By the way, there is a ticket #3054 titled "BUG REPORTING needs to be easier and acted upon" submitted by "hophead". I agree there should be a specific place to send bug reports. There isn't one right now so just submit the bug report to Features Poll. Please vote for it)

I agree it is wrong to unethically force anyone to subscribe data to trade but I don't think this is the main purpose of the popup. To err is human. IB should be willing to fix such a small bug. You don't believe IB will fix the bug even if the feature (or bugfix) request is submitted because otherwise IB won't unnecessarily add some barriers before a bug will be fixed". Don't be paranoid. Action means everything. Let's have an experiment.

Features Request
I have just submitted the feature request (it may take several days to show up):
===================================================================================
Title: One popup is missed out and can't be hidden

Many popups and messages can be set to hidden statuses but IB has missed out one.
This is a situation where people want to trade in the market without IB data because they have substitutes.
Nevertheless a popup will show up every time you submit new or modified orders.

The popup reads:
You are trying to submit an order without having market data for this instrument.
IB strongly recommends against this kind of blind trading.
...
Are you sure you want to submit this order?

Please include this popup to Message Settings in the Global Configurations, and allow us to set it hidden by default.
===================================================================================

If IB fixes the popup bug within 1 month or so, it proves IB doesn't want to keep the bug on purpose and your suppositions are wrong. It requires such a procedure probably because IB is somehow inflexible and bureaucratic so that's why it is slow to respond to personal requests.

Otherwise you may be right in that IB wants to force traders to subscribe data although the reason is unknown. IB is dishonest and should not be trusted.

Let's see. Best wishes! :)
 
Quote from Benign:


As a confirmation, are you really the staff who work in IB? What post do you do?
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I said I was the person who dealt with the exchange on this issue. I've been posting on elite trader for years and would hope I've earned some credibility.

I still don't understand as exchange website reads maximum $200 per terminal. Of course you can get it cheaper but oh well...
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Please show me where you can get it cheaper. The exchange charges everyone (outside of a specific subclass of mainland Chinese who might be eligible for an incentive program) no matter the size of the firm 200 HKD per month for live streaming quotes per terminal. I'll restate that anyone charging less is doing so at a loss or more likely not reporting the true number of subscribers to the exchange.

Sorry, I didn't say so or intend to think you are. But as I said, the replies given by IB are doubtful and contradictory. They don't make up some facts or stories but they don't want to reveal the whole truth either.
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I love these conspiracy theories. While we strive to be perfect you should give some credit to the CS staff. We offer access to 50+ exchanges and you expect each and every person you deal with to know everything there is to know about each market. I'm not sure what contradictory info you got from our CS staff but I will say we target active traders and while the decision on the popups is not my idea or even in my area of responsibilities, I can tell you that I don't see how you can actively trade with speed of entry being a major concern w/o a live data source for point and click entry. I can tell you that when there isn't data (in HK for example, you often have to hit a quote request to get data in certain series from market makers), error trades are almost always because of the lack of a proper market or a typo because they had to manually type in a price (BTW, HK bust requests cost 2000+ HKD on options and unlimited cash in stocks since there are no bust rules).

Since you are the one who said to be dealt with exchange data bills, can you guarantee and confirm the following:
;All data fees charged on ANY MARKET are completely direct pass-through. IB definitely adds nothing on top of it on ANY MARKET. IB doesn't make even a single dime at all."

If you are willing to confirm that the above, would you mind answering me the following questions:
1. If IB has no interest in data subscription, why does IB design to warn me EVERY SINGLE TIME if I don't subscribe the market data?

2. Every other message and popup can be set hidden by default through Global Configuration. Why does IB intentionally leave out this persistent popup?

3. The last question, why does IB refuse to fix this bug/design flaw as soon as possible, especially when IB said it has no interest in data subscription? [/B]
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I won't guarantee anything as I'm not the ultimate decision maker on fees. I will say that it's been our policy to pass on data fees at our cost for markets outside of the US and I don't see that policy changing anytime soon. In the US we offer free data to many of the exchanges for commissions over a certain level as the costs are much less.

The pop up is designed to pop up on a page when you have a market listed but are not subscribed to that exchanges data. I'm not involved in the decision to have it pop up but I certainly know how much of a waste of time and cost it is for staff and management to deal with bust trades. Now that you've raised the point and me think about it, I'm all for leaving the popup. I don't have stats on this but i'd venture a guess that there is a trade off between the commissions gained from the few who trade w/o data in relation to dealing with the increased possibility of bust trades, I'd guess that it is a losing proposition on our side. If you don't want live data, speed is probably not your main concern and thus you can probably deal with the inconvenience of the pop up. So I wouldn't necessarily call it a design flaw. In any event, I'll raise the issue to see if they can be disabled after the initial pop up. I doubt this will have a high priority as is not an issue for the vast majority of our clients.

Now here's a disclaimer: Outside of the facts I provide in regards to fees. My comments and thoughts on the pop up are mine. I'm certain you'll disagree with them but then again I'm certain you haven't had to deal with a time deadline on a 1 lot bust trade when the market is moving at 500 points at a clip. In any event, please don't use my comments to start up another thread with a BS title.
 
Quote from def:

&uot

As the person who dealt directly with the exchange on this matter and reviews the exchange data bill, I ensure you that they charge us 200 HKD per terminal. If you don't believe me, please pick up the phone or email the exchange. Frankly, I don't like being called a liar. We are not marking up our cost on HK data and are simply passing along the charges. In fact, we don't pass along all the fees. If you read the link carefully you'll also see that we pay for data lines and another 384K HKD per year.
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here here!
 
Oh, on the "popup" -- though in no ways related to the main complaints on this thread, this thread did remind me of this issue, so I thought i'd throw it out there.

Each time I start TWS, I get the pop up saying I don't have access to BASKET STK/Top. This started happening mysteriously maybe 2-3 wks ago.

I haven't substantially changed my quote lines and as far as I can tell, I am not really missing anything!

The closest things I can think of were at one point I had a Merger Arbitrage combo set up (both tickers are still live and working but the combo has been removed) and also some EFPs (but they have since been deleted).

So I have no idea what is triggering the pop up for me. I wish it would tell me either exactly what I need to subscribe to or which data line is triggering it....
 
Quote from def:

I've been posting on elite trader for years and would hope I've earned some credibility.

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As far as I'm concerned you certainly have.

Your posts are generally clear and concise, not obfuscatory. Almost like a managing director or some such.

Jack
 
this is absolutely the most entertaining IB bashing thread in a long long time.

This guy is probably getting free quotes from a HK broker. Now he wants the best of both Worlds by getting cheap commission from IB. Good scheme!
 
Quote from Benign:

I really can't get what you guys are talking about. A bug/design flaw is not a feature. Why do I need to submit it through feature poll?

It is amusing if we need to get enough vote to see a bug fixed. If this how IB handles bug report, shame on it. [/B]
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It's not a bug. It's working exactly how they want it to work. If it wasnt doing exactly what they programmed it for it could be considered a bug. Perhaps it's to get pikers like you to trade elsewhere. Traders like you are a nightmare for support.
 
Being a trading professional with market data directly from the exchanges..... its actually cheaper to get data from places like NYSE, if you don't subscribe real time. In fact, NYSE has another feed with a 3-second delay that costs FAR less then the NYSE Real-time Open Book


How much money can you save by charging $200 and paying only $40 to the exchange? Does it take 2-3 seconds for the box to show and be closed? I bet its pretty damn close.....
 
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