IB-Commissions Changes

i have an account with ib but trade no stocks. so you're saying ib was allowing a 2500 share order were 300 shares are filled to cancel the remaining 200 shares and renter the remaining
2200 shares all under 1 commission? so if you got filled in 12 200 share orders it was counted as 1 commission? well no other per share broker in the land does that. so the solution is to find a broker with no minimiums. all the main prop houses have no min's. also i think this is an attack on black boxes that are clogging up many company's servers and even hurting many exhanges. i expect some type of cancelllation charges against fills ratio to reduce this.
 
Quote from monstercat:

i have an account with ib but trade no stocks. so you're saying ib was allowing a 2500 share order were 300 shares are filled to cancel the remaining 200 shares and renter the remaining
2200 shares all under 1 commission? so if you got filled in 12 200 share orders it was counted as 1 commission? well no other per share broker in the land does that. so the solution is to find a broker with no minimiums. all the main prop houses have no min's. also i think this is an attack on black boxes that are clogging up many company's servers and even hurting many exhanges. i expect some type of cancelllation charges against fills ratio to reduce this.
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Your example isn't quite correct. Where you say cancel, change it to "modify". As soon as you cancel an order and send a new one, you incur a new minimum comission.

Say you were buying 2500 shrs, got 200 filled at one price, increased your price (without cancelling), got 200 more filled, increased your price, etc. In this case you are subject to only 1 minimum commission, though you'd still pay commission on all 2500 shares.

I think IB in really going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one.
 
From what I understand, this will only impact exchanges with minimum order tickets - e.g. for futures this won't make a difference. It is to prevent abuse of the system - ie. you submit a 10000 share order in the AM and spend the day modifying it to execute small size all day.
 
Quote from def:

From what I understand, this will only impact exchanges with minimum order tickets - e.g. for futures this won't make a difference. It is to prevent abuse of the system - ie. you submit a 10000 share order in the AM and spend the day modifying it to execute small size all day.
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That might be the intent of the change, but it's a fee increase to a lot of us that aren't trying to game the system.
 
Quote from def:

From what I understand, this will only impact exchanges with minimum order tickets - e.g. for futures this won't make a difference. It is to prevent abuse of the system - ie. you submit a 10000 share order in the AM and spend the day modifying it to execute small size all day.
More...

Then what are the exchanges this will apply to? A list would be nice.
 
Def,

I'd imagine it's not IB's intent to structure this way, as it hurts all parties involved. If this is an intentional structure.....

-- I'm sorry to say, but I'm moving 20-30m+ shares a month elsewhere...and it impacts the smaller guys just as much as me or more.

For API orders, in particular, you've really boxed us in, SMART or bust-- direct order routed API orders are not even close to competative, then add the cancel replace direct routed order charges......now this...if the minimum .70 isn't enough, now it's
.70 min charge on all fills, for many people=.007 sh, across the board, regardless of volume tiers, based on partials.

I won't sit idley by, while the market changes for my order to be hit, just to save commission, particularly when other brokers don't charge it this, nor do stock exchanges.

IS IB BOWING OUT OF THE API ARMS RACE?

Genesis, Lime, Redsky, and now even ToS are taking over where IB once had a small grip on retail for this avenue, now most of these have superior data, superior API, superior commissions, and colocation to boot.

You've been a leader into many retail frontiers, in products offered, API, commission, security, and many others. Don't become another drab clunky retail broker, as most have over the last decade.

I'd like to count on you to do the right thing, if not for me....then at least for IB's sake. I've been with you for 7 years and heavy volume, and I hate to leave, honestly, but that's what I'll have to do.

Again, I hope I'm wrong on the structure analysis, but that's what I understood from your communique, hence the need for detailed clarification.

-Bryan


Quote from MR.NBBO:

Suppose you're working a 2500sh order on a fast moving stock & small partials of your orders make 50-60% of your fills. Previously all these partials would be 1 ticket at IB, and the .70 unbundled min. charge doesn't matter.

Suppose you generate enough volume that you have a blended IB tier avg commish charge of .0015 ----or have that rate elsewhere.

Is this IB's new commish structure, if at a .0015 tier?

Buy 300sh=.70, Buy 200=.70, buy 400=.70, buy 500=.75,
buy 100=.70, buy 200=.70., buy 300=.70, buy 500=.75
The 2500sh order is now filled. Cost $5.70 on this new change.

= .00228CPS commish. a 52% increase over .0015.

25,000,000 shares a month*(.00228-.0015)= $19,500 more a month.


In an increasingly fragmented and faster electronic market, small partials are the standard now.Given that SMART will route, reroute, route, reroute reflecting this fact----you're almost guaranteed these minimum charges. This seems like quite a step backwards given today's environment.


My guess is IB is sneaking in a commission hike, and trying to reduce network traffic in one fell swoop.
I believe they'll do just that, but lose some of their most important clients doing so.
Also given the stiff direct routing charges from API, you don't have much choice but to go SMART, and certainly losing some control over partials. This type of change really backs customers into a corner, and also works to the detriment of IB as well.

I certainly hope this is not the case.
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Quote from def:

From what I understand, this will only impact exchanges with minimum order tickets - e.g. for futures this won't make a difference. It is to prevent abuse of the system - ie. you submit a 10000 share order in the AM and spend the day modifying it to execute small size all day.
More...

Immediate, and detailed clarification is needed, Def.
Stocks were made a clear example in the communique, yet I know of no US stock exchange with a minimum (other than round lots), in which this would apply based on execution.
 
Quote from def:

From what I understand, this will only impact exchanges with minimum order tickets - e.g. for futures this won't make a difference. It is to prevent abuse of the system - ie. you submit a 10000 share order in the AM and spend the day modifying it to execute small size all day.
More...

i did not see any "system" abuse in this example,but i do see customer abuse after those changes. you start chasing the stock with your 10000 shares order-you going to get raped by commissions.
 
next logical step from IB would be to sell you 1 share every time you place buy order at current bid price or higher.then-you will be forced to modify the price,specially,for 100 shares order,since your order will be removed from nbbo
 
There must be some programmer at IB who knows how this will work. I guess we will find out tomorrow.

I basically trade futures so it would be nice if you guys that trade stocks would provide feedback on what actually takes place.

Jack
 
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