I went to Gambler's Anonymous
- Thread starter dnaj65000
- Start date
I heard that quote before. I believed in it before going to GA. The person who originally wrote it probably wanted to make himself feel better about what he was doing. The negative connotation of it to the general public was too much for his ego to bear. This is the same reason why undertakers changed their label to funeral directors. It's to make themselves feel better and to have the public give them a better image. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think changing the name of jobs, for example city works engineers from garbagemen, does have a positive impact on the mind.
However, that does not really change that gambling and trading share similarities. If you are talking odds as a way of separating the two, then please explain how you would characterize trading as not gambling when 90% of all traders fail when they enter into the casino called "The markets"?
DNAJ65000
Hey 90% of all new businesses fail!!!!
There is a difference between betting on a football game, a pair of Dice, a couple of cards adding up to 21 or under, the horses...etc .Those are all games of chance and pure luck!!!!
IF you go into the market every day and say fuck it, give me 1000 shares of IBM; then yes you are gambling. But if you use technicals, fundimentals, news, or whatever system it is, then it is not gambling, it is an educated system that has proven to work for you.
Say you want to open a business and you realized there are no Pizza places within 20 miles of your town. Well, chances are you might be succesful. Yet if you open the same pizza store in NYC where there is one every block, you know what? You might not be so succesful. So Pick and choose your stocks wisely and it is not gambling.
IF you bet $2000 on a game you either lose it all or you make money. IF i buy $2000 worth of stock and it doesn't look good, I can sell it and only lose a portion of my $2000 not the whole thing. The third option i have that a gambler doesn't have is that I don't have to loose it all!!!!
So take your GA meetings and shove em up some gambler's ass. Every person I every meet that went to a ANON meeting (mostly drinkers) tend to become preachers of their former vice. The thing is they don't understand is MODERATION
There is a difference between betting on a football game, a pair of Dice, a couple of cards adding up to 21 or under, the horses...etc .Those are all games of chance and pure luck!!!!
IF you go into the market every day and say fuck it, give me 1000 shares of IBM; then yes you are gambling. But if you use technicals, fundimentals, news, or whatever system it is, then it is not gambling, it is an educated system that has proven to work for you.
Say you want to open a business and you realized there are no Pizza places within 20 miles of your town. Well, chances are you might be succesful. Yet if you open the same pizza store in NYC where there is one every block, you know what? You might not be so succesful. So Pick and choose your stocks wisely and it is not gambling.
IF you bet $2000 on a game you either lose it all or you make money. IF i buy $2000 worth of stock and it doesn't look good, I can sell it and only lose a portion of my $2000 not the whole thing. The third option i have that a gambler doesn't have is that I don't have to loose it all!!!!
So take your GA meetings and shove em up some gambler's ass. Every person I every meet that went to a ANON meeting (mostly drinkers) tend to become preachers of their former vice. The thing is they don't understand is MODERATION
Coincidence? 
Many jobs include gambling.
The main difference is you don't have to put up any money,instead you are gambling with wasting your precious time.
The corporate worker who invests many years in his "safe job"
to only become downsized.
His company stock crashes and his company philosophy was to always average down "its a good company".
Then his company closes and his home equity plummets because it was the main employer in the area.
The auto sales man who banks on with his selling skills and choice of employer, the probabilities will allow him to meet up with customers who will buy from him.
The garbage man who gambles that his job will not be replaced by a machine.
His job does become replaced by a machine and now unemployed,unskilled,jobless and inadequate time for training for a new job with sufficient compensation to meet his monthly obligations his gamble did not pan out.
Other forms of gambling:
The man down the street puts an addition on his home,knowing that if he loses his job his likelihood of getting a new job which will be able to pay his mortgage and equity loan on his home are slim.
The people who get home equity loans (which are tied to the prime rate with or without a margin added to it) and if the interest rate gets high enough will not be able to make the payments.
Somehow I think if interest rates started heading up and up
these people would say "their coming back down" similar to the
the "my stock will come back people of 2000."
What about the driver of a car that goes thru a green light "assuming the driver from the cross street will stop for their red light".
The person thats eats in a restaurant gambling that the food is not rotten and the person who prepared it has washed his hands so hepatitis can be avoided.
Anyone who gets on an airplane and gambles,prays or whatever that it will not crash.
All in all every aspect of life includes gambling of one type or another.
Some gambles the odds are very much in your favor and others they are not.
Some gambles the risk vs. reward is low and some it is not.
Some gambles you have a high probability of controlling the risk ,such as a stop as long as it can be executed, and others you have no control over ,as in the plane crashing even know the odds are against it.
Even buying a home 50 years ago was a gamble ,I remember a friend of mines parents being told you are crazy spending $6000
dollars for a building lot!
The main difference is you don't have to put up any money,instead you are gambling with wasting your precious time.
The corporate worker who invests many years in his "safe job"
to only become downsized.
His company stock crashes and his company philosophy was to always average down "its a good company".
Then his company closes and his home equity plummets because it was the main employer in the area.
The auto sales man who banks on with his selling skills and choice of employer, the probabilities will allow him to meet up with customers who will buy from him.
The garbage man who gambles that his job will not be replaced by a machine.
His job does become replaced by a machine and now unemployed,unskilled,jobless and inadequate time for training for a new job with sufficient compensation to meet his monthly obligations his gamble did not pan out.
Other forms of gambling:
The man down the street puts an addition on his home,knowing that if he loses his job his likelihood of getting a new job which will be able to pay his mortgage and equity loan on his home are slim.
The people who get home equity loans (which are tied to the prime rate with or without a margin added to it) and if the interest rate gets high enough will not be able to make the payments.
Somehow I think if interest rates started heading up and up
these people would say "their coming back down" similar to the
the "my stock will come back people of 2000."
What about the driver of a car that goes thru a green light "assuming the driver from the cross street will stop for their red light".
The person thats eats in a restaurant gambling that the food is not rotten and the person who prepared it has washed his hands so hepatitis can be avoided.
Anyone who gets on an airplane and gambles,prays or whatever that it will not crash.
All in all every aspect of life includes gambling of one type or another.
Some gambles the odds are very much in your favor and others they are not.
Some gambles the risk vs. reward is low and some it is not.
Some gambles you have a high probability of controlling the risk ,such as a stop as long as it can be executed, and others you have no control over ,as in the plane crashing even know the odds are against it.
Even buying a home 50 years ago was a gamble ,I remember a friend of mines parents being told you are crazy spending $6000
dollars for a building lot!
Clearly you did not take the time to read the original post or else you should of understood my motive for posting is to draw similarities between the two and improving one's trading from understanding the other. In no way have I said that trading is gambling and that gambling is bad. Please take the time to do your research on a thread before replying in such an offensive way. Since you only read one post, you essentially said fuck it, I'll try to flame this guy. And you are the one who took the gamble. Ironic isn't it?
Also your logic behind the pizza parlor is wrong. My non trading background is in small business, namely restaurants and opening a pizza parlor in NYC will give you lower risk than opening the sole pizza parlor within 20 miles. Why? Because there is an established market already. There are customers willing to buy pizza in NYC. If you open your store in NYC, I can guarantee you that you will have sales the day you open your store. If you open in the middle of nowhere, there are no established pizza buyers there so you will have to spend money building that market. Surely you can make a lot more money if it is successful, but you are taking on a lot more risk that the reason why there are no pizza parlors there is because there is no market for pizza.
Do yourself a favor and look around at your city and look at the businesses that are clustered together. Look at banks, gas stations, restaurants, electronic stores, furniture stores, hotels, and the like and look how close they are to each other.
Instead of pizza stores in NYC, think about Las Vegas' Strip. By your logic, the casinos 20 miles away from The Strip should make more money than opening a new casino right on The Strip. See? If you are willing to see that relationship, perhaps you can open your mind to see the relationship between gambling and trading.
DNAJ65000
There is a relationship between gambling and trading.
But the relationship exists in the PERSON, not the game.
If you trade for the action, the highs, the lows, do NOT
have the discipline to follow the rules of a proven system,
and can't stop yourself from trading when you shouldn't,
then you ARE a gambler.
A good trader is a MACHINE, who executes his well researched
system with a proven EDGE, flawlessly.
A good trader does not have the psychological FLAW of
a gambler. HE is in control of the game. The game is NOT
in control of HIM.
peace
axeman
But the relationship exists in the PERSON, not the game.
If you trade for the action, the highs, the lows, do NOT
have the discipline to follow the rules of a proven system,
and can't stop yourself from trading when you shouldn't,
then you ARE a gambler.
A good trader is a MACHINE, who executes his well researched
system with a proven EDGE, flawlessly.
A good trader does not have the psychological FLAW of
a gambler. HE is in control of the game. The game is NOT
in control of HIM.
peace
axeman
I understand why 2yearNewbie took offense to your post... You are taking the word "gambling" much to loosely. The way you use the word, anything can be considered 'gambling'. For example, the best home-run hitters in baseball only hit a homerun less than 10% of the times they are at bat... 90% of the time, they do NOT hit a homerun.
Can they be considered to be 'gambling'? I guess by your definition, the answer is "yes".
I think this was a great thread topic for a number of people. Many traders DO treat trading as though it were gambling, and it is very unhealthy for their finances, no doubt. However, not all traders are 'gamblers', any more than Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs are corporate 'gamblers'.
Trading can be a successful business. Many traders on this board (myself fortunately included) ARE professional traders that earning a stable living month-in and month-out by trading. This is how we pay the morgage and provide for our families, and yield incomes many multiples greater than we could in the 'outside working world'. To call such a trader a gambler is wrong, IMO.
You submitted the following question:
"However, that does not really change that gambling and trading share similarities. If you are talking odds as a way of separating the two, then please explain how you would characterize trading as not gambling when 90% of all traders fail when they enter into the casino called "The markets"?"
My reply would be that trading IS gambling for many traders (likely more than 50% of all traders) and trading IS NOT gambling for those that are successfully trading methods that have an edge and consistently attractive long term returns.
To summarize, "Trading" in and of itself is not gambling. It's how it's implemented by the individual that can be deemed gambling or not.
-Eric
Can they be considered to be 'gambling'? I guess by your definition, the answer is "yes".
I think this was a great thread topic for a number of people. Many traders DO treat trading as though it were gambling, and it is very unhealthy for their finances, no doubt. However, not all traders are 'gamblers', any more than Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs are corporate 'gamblers'.
Trading can be a successful business. Many traders on this board (myself fortunately included) ARE professional traders that earning a stable living month-in and month-out by trading. This is how we pay the morgage and provide for our families, and yield incomes many multiples greater than we could in the 'outside working world'. To call such a trader a gambler is wrong, IMO.
You submitted the following question:
"However, that does not really change that gambling and trading share similarities. If you are talking odds as a way of separating the two, then please explain how you would characterize trading as not gambling when 90% of all traders fail when they enter into the casino called "The markets"?"
My reply would be that trading IS gambling for many traders (likely more than 50% of all traders) and trading IS NOT gambling for those that are successfully trading methods that have an edge and consistently attractive long term returns.
To summarize, "Trading" in and of itself is not gambling. It's how it's implemented by the individual that can be deemed gambling or not.
-Eric
well said, axeman. however, we diverge on a point, a good trader is in control of himself not the game. no one can control"the game" .
best,
surf
