I was with the neocons– (Then I went to the Middle East)

[Tresor]

Quote from a_person:

Typical anti-semitic nonsense. Finding jews in every movement (communism in this case), counting percentages and blaming the entire movement on the jews is the standard operating procedure of Jew haters and this scumbag Tresor has crossed the line of pure Nazi-style antisemitism quite a long time ago.

According to these idiots the jews are responsible for both capitalism and communism, slavery and the civil rights movement etc. The jews were to blame when Bush was president as he had a few jewish advicers. Now Jews are to blame again because Obama has jewish advisers and members of cabinet too. It all fits perfectly well into the illogical narrow mind of the Jew hating public, blinded by their stupidity, ignorance and hatred they see no contradictions.

What these degenerates forget to mention is that 25% of Nobel prize winners, 15-20% of Harvard, MIT and other Ivy league schools' graduates are jews, disproportionate number of scientists, politicians, entrepreneurs (Michael Dell, Larry Ellison for example) are jews so their role in business, politics, science and various movements does appear to be disproportionate.

Typical nazi-zionist gibberish. Someone raised a question why Ukrainians blamed Jews for the famine. I just simply answered the question: Because Jews were implementing Stalin's ideas in Ukraine. Whether Ukrainins are right or wrong should not be the reason to make personal attacks on me.

Regards.

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Martinghoul:

How do you figure that? What actual statistics might those be?

This is issue of Jews having been overrepresented in bolshevik system (political, secret police, etc.) was already discussed somewhere in his forum. If you really need this info, I could google this when I find time.

Quote from Martinghoul:
And? My impression is that this perception is a recent phenomenon and is cultivated by populist politicians. Blaming the Jews for everything is a such a tried and true method.
For me the only one responsible for this was Stalin. He believed that it was necessary to build the Russian state and he implemented what he felt was necessary.

My impression is somewhat different. This is not a recent phenomenom. This issue was exploited by populist politicians in 60s and 70s. Jews in certain point of time during communism (after Stalin's death) were chased and prosecuted in Eastern Europe for actual or fake accusations of their involvement in Stalin's apparatus. They massively migrated from Eastern Europe mostly to the US. Watched this once in a documentary by Planete.

What we do now is just discussing. This is not politics. I do not see much discussion on Jews in Europe. Noone wants to regard Jewish real / fake involvement in the Ukrainian famine from a political viewpoint, at least as far as my knowledge goes. This is just history now.

Regards

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Tresor:

This is issue of Jews having been overrepresented in bolshevik system (political, secret police, etc.) was already discussed somewhere in his forum. If you really need this info, I could google this when I find time.

No, you have got this wrong. I have seen some data that shows that Jewish people were disproportionately involved at the top echelons of the Bolshevik power structure. However, your claim that Jews generally were attracted to the bolshevik ideas more than other European ethnic groups is false. Specifically, just because a few skillful Jewish activists joined the bolshevik cause (whether driven by idealism or lust for power), doesn't mean that you can generalize to Jewish people. That's fallacious and is, in fact, what anti-semitism is all about.

My impression is somewhat different. This is not a recent phenomenom. This issue was exploited by populist politicians in 60s and 70s. Jews in certain point of time during communism (after Stalin's death) were chased and prosecuted in Eastern Europe for actual or fake accusations of their involvement in Stalin's apparatus. They massively migrated from Eastern Europe mostly to the US. Watched this once in a documentary by Planete.

What we do now is just discussing. This is not politics. I do not see much discussion on Jews in Europe. Noone wants to regard Jewish real / fake involvement in the Ukrainian famine from a political viewpoint, at least as far as my knowledge goes. This is just history now.

Regards

I have no problem discussing things and I agree that this is not politics. What I don't like is baseless generalizations.

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Martinghoul:

No, you have got this wrong. I have seen some data that shows that Jewish people were disproportionately involved at the top echelons of the Bolshevik power structure.

The knowledge I have contradicts your data. Could you please share your data? Then I would try to find other data. Then we would have a fact based dispute

Regards

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Tresor:

The knowledge I have contradicts your data. Could you please share your data? Then I would try to find other data. Then we would have a fact based dispute

Regards

I am reading the papers, shown as references here (some in Russian):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Also, looking at this table:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1924_Chart_-_Conditions_in_Russia.png

Interestingly enough, looks like the ethnic groups most drawn to bolshevism were Polish, Lithuanians and Estonians.

 

[sameeh55]

Quote from maxpi:

These guys are obsessed with Jews... aren't there meds that reduce obsession... oh wait, it's their religious leadership that is REALLY obsessed with Jews because both descended from Abraham. So the Jews can't be the REAL and favored descendants of Abraham, it has to be the Arabs, especially the religious leaders. if they lost their religious authority they would lose their collections of wives and their money and power...

How can a class of people sit there and take all the women and then turn the young guys that will never have a wife into suicide bombers?? I read an interview with a really aging mobster once.. he was bitter because the bosses had ordered him to kill his best friend and mentor.. he told people that when the bosses tell you to kill somebody like that, kill the bosses... maybe Middle Easterners will start doing that.. blow up the Mullahs and liberate some women at the same time...

Take off your shades buddy and look at yourself in the mirror. Half of the stupid threads on this forum are all about racist conspiracy theories against Muslims and Arabs.

If there are any meds to take care of obsession, you and few others like you should right away subscribe for them for you are one of the most obsessed man about Muslims and Arabs in this forum.

The reason I made this thread is to show an example of a man who shared your, and your like, sick views and how he discovered that he was severely wrong after his visit to the Middle East.

What followed was a barrage of posts, including yours, that proved the level of sickness and bipolar fear of Arabs and Muslims.

I invite honest people to go through the posts that followed my thread and see who needs meds.

Did you go to Bernard and ask him to take his meds Maxpi? Of course no!, after all, both of you subscribe to the same mental institute.

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Martinghoul:

I am reading the papers, shown as references here (some in Russian):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Also, looking at this table:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/1924_Chart_-_Conditions_in_Russia.png

Interestingly enough, looks like the ethnic groups most drawn to bolshevism were Polish, Lithuanians and Estonians.

Thanks Martinghoul,

I made a little research. I knew the Jews were over-represented in communist terror organisations, but it is better to back this knowledge by facts.

The Jews constituted around 2% of the Soviet population. Their representation in Cheka (secret police - real red terror assholes) management was 50% at certain point in time. When you divide 50% by 2% you arrive at an over-representation of 25 times.

The problem I had was with NKVD (all other data are from wikipedia). The statistics I found was from year 1934 (no earlier data): http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/3/Rudolf325-327.html The over-representation was 19 times.

Please have a look at the attached screenshot from my Excel.

Assuming I did not make an algebra mistake, it would be natural to admit that the Jews were over-represented in the red terror regime.

Regards

 

[Tresor]

Funny thing how wikipedia content changed over a few months on Jewish bolshevism

Look at this link with new content on Cheka: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Cheka

And now look at historic content on Cheka that I quoted from wikipedia a few months ago: http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2364337&highlight=cheka#post2364337

Did the historic facts changed over a few months or needed to be changed

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

haha let me guess was it a "zionist conspiracy" to make you look bad for posting inaccurate information on ET??!!

Hahaha, cool. But not he case here.

Wikipedia was supposed to give facts. In this case facts on Jewish Bolshevism.

A few month ago the facts on wikipedia were that 50% of 12-person Checka Committe members were Jewish. Now wikipedia is silent on this issue, ergo information on Jewish bolshevism is less complete than it used to be.

Is it what you would expect from an enclyclopaedia?

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

why is it that you people always forget to mention that all the founding fathers of modern day capitalism are jewish???

Hi Mom0/pH0x,

We DO NOT forget it. Feel free to start a thread on capitalism. I will be more than happy to contribute on Milton Friedman.

Feel free to start a thread on art. I will be more than happy to contribute on Woody Alen or Sacha Cohen.

In this thread someone mentioned Jewish potential involvement in Holodomor. Jewish merits in capitalism had nothing to do with Holodomor, so noone (except for you) mentioned this as it would be off-topic.

Regards