I was with the neocons– (Then I went to the Middle East)

[a_person]

Quote from sameeh55:

That is not what the Ukrainian people say!

As of March 2008, the Ukraine and nineteen other governments[20] have recognized the actions of the Soviet government as an act of genocide. The joint declaration at the United Nations in 2003 has defined the famine as the result of cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs and other nationalities in the USSR. On 23 October 2008 the European Parliament adopted a resolution[21] that recognized the Holodomor as a crime against humanity.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

See shahid55, it's the Soviet government, its the commies who did that and it's recognized by the entire world, including Ukraine. Commies, you know, the best friends best supporters and best allies of the Arabs.

Its also ironic that Tresor being the son of western supporters of Stalin and communism (according to his own admission) is now a great supporter of the Islamo-nazi cause. Truly the apple never falls far from the tree.

 

[number22]

Quote from a_person:

As of March 2008, the Ukraine and nineteen other governments[20] have recognized the actions of the Soviet government as an act of genocide. The joint declaration at the United Nations in 2003 has defined the famine as the result of cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs and other nationalities in the USSR. On 23 October 2008 the European Parliament adopted a resolution[21] that recognized the Holodomor as a crime against humanity.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

LOL; what about Great Irish Famine, and smallpox on native American. Is it called genocide too? I don't think so.

 

[a_person]

Quote from number22:

LOL; what about Great Irish Famine, and smallpox on native American. Is it called genocide too? I don't think so.

What? Are jews responsible for those as well? That would not be surprising given that they (the Jews) were responsible for the black death in Europe 700 years ago and now are responsible for all the crimes committed by the Soviets. Right?




Oh and btw, you claimed earlier in this thread (despite the fact that israel occupies 0.3% of the Middle East):

Quote from number22:Exploiting these people and diminishing their survival land

And here is what "these people" actually think:

Quote from sameeh55:You zionists should not "Occupy an inch of an Arab land.

So what do you think?

 

[number22]

Quote from a_person:

What? Are jews responsible for those as well? That would not be surprising given that they (the Jews) were responsible for the black death in Europe 700 years ago and now are responsible for all the crimes committed by the Soviets. Right?

I was merely pointing out your flawed example. I saw too much hypocrisy in human history; winner took all mentality.

I believe in fighting for yourself. Yasser Arafat and many of these people are corrupted, these people are lacking real leadership, plus their religion clots their judgment. If only Arab has a leader who like Mao from China, the landscape of middle east will be different. In fact, they can't have someone means they deserve what they got.

 

[a_person]

Quote from number22:

I was merely pointing out your flawed example.

It was not an example, you misunderstood the purpose of my post. It was a response to the baseless claim that the jews caused the event (Holodomor) not dissimilar btw to the 700 year old accusation that the jews caused the Black Death in Europe. It was a response to the claim that the Ukrainians blame the jews for it. Although I have no doubt that a number of anti-semites among Ukrainians do but that's neither the official position of the Ukrainian government nor the views of the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian people.

If you want to argue whether Holodomor qualifies as a genocide - take it to Ukraine, 19 other governments and the UN who do think so. I frankly don't care.

 

[a_person]

Quote from number22:

If only Arab has a leader who like Mao from China, the landscape of middle east will be different.

If Arabs had a leader like Mao he would have to find an intelligent, hard-working enterprising educated people like the Chinese to lead in order to change the landscape of the middle-east. Even the best leader is helpless if he has to lead a bunch of disorganized, uneducated, brain-washed, medieval tribes against a modern western enemy. It could have worked 1,000 years ago, it ain't work no more.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Tresor:

The communist regimes used to implement their socio-economic ideas in Eastern Europe's countries through secret police. The highest positions in secret police were occupied by the Jews.

Let's say the Jews represented 3 - 5% of the population in Russia, then the Jewish representation in the regime secret police was something between 30% - 50%. Checka (Russian secret police) was one of the example.

The same was the case with Ukraine. A vast percentage of the crime apparatus consisted of the Jews. This is why there is so much anty-Jewish sentiment in Ukraine. This is why Ukrainian people link Holomodor (famine in Ukraine) to the Jews. Stalin's ideas were implemented to a great extend by the Ukrainian Jews.

The anty-Jewishness in Eastern Europe has its well grounded origins. This sentiment will not disappear soon.

Regards

Is that right?

You're basing this on what reliable sources? As far as I can see, even historians that study the events can't conclude whether Holodomor was intentionally genocidal.

Moreover, if, as you say, Holodomor was about implementation of socio-economic ideas by the Soviet regime, headed by I. V. Stalin, how does it implicate the Jews? If they were, in fact, Stalin's tools (and they might have been chosen on purpose for the task), how exactly are they to blame for Holodomor?

 

[Tresor]

Quote from Martinghoul:


Moreover, if, as you say, Holodomor was about implementation of socio-economic ideas by the Soviet regime, headed by I. V. Stalin, how does it implicate the Jews?

You answered your question in the below sentence:

Quote from Martinghoul:
If they were, in fact, Stalin's tools (and they might have been chosen on purpose for the task), how exactly are they to blame for Holodomor?

You may of course argue whether the Jews were chosen for the task or the Jews chose themselves to be the tool.

The statistics show that Jews were attracted by the idea of communism / bolsevism to a greater extend than the native people of Eastern Europe.

I think the Ukrainians, Polish, Czechs, Slovaks and many more perceived Jews as the ethnic group that was implementing the unwanted system on them.

Holomodor was one of the system's attrocities. Not the only one, but for sure one of the greatest. Ukraine was one of many countries in which communism was implemented by force. The Jews sent to these countries from Moscow or appointed by Moscow were called parachuters (as far as I remember).

Each country had its parachuter(s) from Moscow. One of such parachuters was Jozef Cyrankiewicz (Izaak Cymerman) who was appointed by Moscow to rule Poland.

You would need to google the issue to find out more.

Regards

 

[a_person]

Quote from Tresor:

You answered your question in the below sentence:



You may of course argue whether the Jews were chosen for the task or the Jews chose themselves to be the tool.

The statistics show that Jews were attracted by the idea of communism / bolsevism to a greater extend than the native people of Eastern Europe.

I think the Ukrainians, Polish, Czechs, Slovaks and many more perceived Jews as the ethnic group that was implementing the unwanted system on them.

Holomodor was one of the system's attrocities. Not the only one, but for sure one of the greatest. Ukraine was one of many countries in which communism was implemented by force. The Jews sent to these countries from Moscow or appointed by Moscow were called parachuters (as far as I remember).

Each country had its parachuter(s) from Moscow. One of such parachuters was Jozef Cyrankiewicz (Izaak Cymerman) who was appointed by Moscow to rule Poland.

You would need to google the issue to find out more.

Regards

Typical anti-semitic nonsense. Finding jews in every movement (communism in this case), counting percentages and blaming the entire movement on the jews is the standard operating procedure of Jew haters and this scumbag Tresor has crossed the line of pure Nazi-style antisemitism quite a long time ago.

According to these idiots the jews are responsible for both capitalism and communism, slavery and the civil rights movement etc. The jews were to blame when Bush was president as he had a few jewish advicers. Now Jews are to blame again because Obama has jewish advisers and members of cabinet too. It all fits perfectly well into the illogical narrow mind of the Jew hating public, blinded by their stupidity, ignorance and hatred they see no contradictions.

What these degenerates forget to mention is that 25% of Nobel prize winners, 15-20% of Harvard, MIT and other Ivy league schools' graduates are jews, disproportionate number of scientists, politicians, entrepreneurs (Michael Dell, Larry Ellison for example) are jews so their role in business, politics, science and various movements does appear to be disproportionate.

 

[Martinghoul]

Quote from Tresor:

You answered your question in the below sentence:

No, I didn't... Firstly, I said "if". Secondly, the question still stands. If Jews were the instrument of the regime, how can you argue that Jews and not the regime is to blame?

You may of course argue whether the Jews were chosen for the task or the Jews chose themselves to be the tool.

The statistics show that Jews were attracted by the idea of communism / bolsevism to a greater extend than the native people of Eastern Europe.

How do you figure that? What actual statistics might those be?

I think the Ukrainians, Polish, Czechs, Slovaks and many more perceived Jews as the ethnic group that was implementing the unwanted system on them.

And? My impression is that this perception is a recent phenomenon and is cultivated by populist politicians. Blaming the Jews for everything is a such a tried and true method.
For me the only one responsible for this was Stalin. He believed that it was necessary to build the Russian state and he implemented what he felt was necessary.

Holomodor was one of the system's attrocities. Not the only one, but for sure one of the greatest. Ukraine was one of many countries in which communism was implemented by force. The Jews sent to these countries from Moscow or appointed by Moscow were called parachuters (as far as I remember).

Each country had its parachuter(s) from Moscow. One of such parachuters was Jozef Cyrankiewicz (Izaak Cymerman) who was appointed by Moscow to rule Poland.

Yep, but guess what, it's not just about Ukraine, Poland and others. Belomorkanal, for example, was in many ways similar, but had nothing to do with ethnicity. Just goes to show that it's really not about Jews vs Ukrainians, but rather about Stalin doing what he felt was necessary.

You would need to google the issue to find out more.
Regards

I don't need to google anything. One of my parents is Ukrainian, the other is Russian. I just don't buy the anti-semitic propaganda, that's all, and I don't like revisionist history, either.