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I think I posted this at some point in the past. But it is important.
- Thread starter Overnight
- Start date
In human history, a great general after once killing many members of a specific sect/cult, who would have no weapons for defense - except their belief of wiling to die for their belief, and after his conversion to become a member of the sect, most often he would change his name and hidden somewhere for the rest of hid life.
By not to mention any historical matters. Many of the Nazi generals would be like that. Some ancient Chinese generals after mass killing would live in temples hidden in mountains far far away from the public. They would probably have no right in teaching/educating peace. How about reflections - yes, possibly they could and only leave their writings to be known after death.
Why would people still listen to these once-evil-minded generals for their Holy sayings? That is beyond common logic.
How many times in human history and what were their names besides Saul/Paul did the same thing like what Saul did? Saul could be the only one carrying out this kind of process, without much regret by openly saying I am sorry, and I regret about what I did, and I beg your forgiveness, and I now would like to say good-bye if you allow me to go peacefully.
Can we read something like that from the bible? Probably yes - unsure, however absolutely very little - I think.
Letters expressing regrets should be written, instead of letters teaching theory/theology. imo
Were Paul's listeners independent thinkers like the Real Jesus wanted them to be ? Except those ones already killed (perhaps selectively) by Saul!
Another 2 cents!
By not to mention any historical matters. Many of the Nazi generals would be like that. Some ancient Chinese generals after mass killing would live in temples hidden in mountains far far away from the public. They would probably have no right in teaching/educating peace. How about reflections - yes, possibly they could and only leave their writings to be known after death.
Why would people still listen to these once-evil-minded generals for their Holy sayings? That is beyond common logic.
How many times in human history and what were their names besides Saul/Paul did the same thing like what Saul did? Saul could be the only one carrying out this kind of process, without much regret by openly saying I am sorry, and I regret about what I did, and I beg your forgiveness, and I now would like to say good-bye if you allow me to go peacefully.
Can we read something like that from the bible? Probably yes - unsure, however absolutely very little - I think.
Letters expressing regrets should be written, instead of letters teaching theory/theology. imo
Were Paul's listeners independent thinkers like the Real Jesus wanted them to be ? Except those ones already killed (perhaps selectively) by Saul!
Another 2 cents!
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http://www.biblestudy.org/question/sauldie.html
How did the Apostle Paul die?
QUESTION: How did the apostle Paul die? When was apostle Paul's death? Did he die in Rome?
ANSWER: The Bible does not tell us the exact time or manner of the apostle Paul's death, and secular history has yet to provide us with any definitive information. However, evidence highly suggests the apostle Paul's death occurred after his fifth missionary journey ended in 67 A.D. Paul was likely beheaded by the Romans, under Emperor Nero, sometime around May or June of 68 A.D. Nero himself died by suicide on June 9th of the same year.
Christian tradition also has Paul being beheaded in Rome around the mid 60s A.D. during the reign of Nero. Most Bible dictionaries and some commentaries can give us details on the traditions surrounding Paul's death.
"Concerning the time, place, and manner of his death, we have little certainty. It is commonly believed that, when a general persecution was raised against the Christians by Nero, about A.D. 64, under pretence that they had set Rome on fire, both St. Paul and St. Peter then sealed the truth with their blood; the latter being crucified with his head downward; the former being beheaded, either in A.D. 64 or 65, and buried in the Via Ostiensis. EUSEBIUS, Hist, Eccles. lib. ii. cap. 25, intimates that the tombs of these two apostles, with their inscriptions, were extant in his time; and quotes as his authority a holy man of the name of Caius, who wrote against the sect of the Cataphrygians, who has asserted this, as from his personal knowledge. See Eusebius, by Reading, vol. i. p. 83; and see Dr. Lardner, in his life of this apostle, who examines this account with his usual perspicuity and candor.
"Other writers have been more particular concerning his death: they say that it was not by the command of Nero that he was martyred, but by that of the prefects of the city, Nero being then absent; that he was beheaded at Aquae Salviae, about three miles from Rome, on February 22; that he could not be crucified, as Peter was, because he was a freeman of the city of Rome.
"But there is great uncertainty on these subjects, so that we cannot positively rely on any account that even the ancients have transmitted to us concerning the death of this apostle; and much less on the accounts given by the moderns; and least of all on those which are to be found in the Martyrologists. Whether Paul ever returned after this to Rome has not yet been satisfactorily proved. It is probable that he did, and suffered death there, as stated above; but still we have no certainty" (Commentary on the Bible by Adam Clarke, commenting on Acts 28:31).
Paul was supposed a part founder (if not sole founder) of the contemporary Christianity of his age after Jesus' death. Almost the whole theory/theology about Christianity! A vital role!
Why the author of Acts stopped writing anything about Paul's death?
Who stopped the author writing something, anything about that? Persecuted? When, why, how, who (did that), where, ... ? Any details?
Perhaps Paul died naturally. Again: When, why, how, who (observed/told that), where, ... ? Any details?
Perhaps an impossible mission accomplished! Just disappeared! Nobody even noticed!
Did Paul finally change his mind and belief again by converting to anything else before his death? Nobody knows till now!
Why the death of Jesus and his disciples individually was so importantly traced and recorded? Why not for Paul, as he claimed by himself being the 13th disciple?
Did Paul meet Jesus a second time, perhaps he did, by the time of his natural retirement as being a human? For telling him something like "Lie no more about me". LOL
Why the author of Acts stopped writing anything about Paul's death?
Who stopped the author writing something, anything about that? Persecuted? When, why, how, who (did that), where, ... ? Any details?
Perhaps Paul died naturally. Again: When, why, how, who (observed/told that), where, ... ? Any details?
Perhaps an impossible mission accomplished! Just disappeared! Nobody even noticed!
Did Paul finally change his mind and belief again by converting to anything else before his death? Nobody knows till now!
Why the death of Jesus and his disciples individually was so importantly traced and recorded? Why not for Paul, as he claimed by himself being the 13th disciple?
Did Paul meet Jesus a second time, perhaps he did, by the time of his natural retirement as being a human? For telling him something like "Lie no more about me". LOL
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Why Paul was qualified as Jesus' disciple/apostle? What were the reasons?
Why many others who listened/learned/followed to Jesus teachings, face to face physically evidenced by other more formal close disciples, were no also Jesus's disciples? What were the reasons?
If the main reason was only the called ones by Jesus himself in order to learn his teachings by living around him were truly disciples, then Paul should not be a disciple at all, based on merely a moment of meeting with Jesus. With no evidence physically by others.
What did Paul learn from Jesus for that moment? Probably not much!
Some others also spoke and met with Jesus by showing/watching/touching his hands with pin-holes. Are they also called apostles/disciples, if they want/intent to claim that title? Probably not, that could not be easily accepted by most of others.
Why Paul can do that, and had got acceptance by most others without much objection recorded in the bible books? Zero objection! LOL
Why many others who listened/learned/followed to Jesus teachings, face to face physically evidenced by other more formal close disciples, were no also Jesus's disciples? What were the reasons?
If the main reason was only the called ones by Jesus himself in order to learn his teachings by living around him were truly disciples, then Paul should not be a disciple at all, based on merely a moment of meeting with Jesus. With no evidence physically by others.
What did Paul learn from Jesus for that moment? Probably not much!
Some others also spoke and met with Jesus by showing/watching/touching his hands with pin-holes. Are they also called apostles/disciples, if they want/intent to claim that title? Probably not, that could not be easily accepted by most of others.
Why Paul can do that, and had got acceptance by most others without much objection recorded in the bible books? Zero objection! LOL
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why are they prancing around ruins?. That's very crappy stone work for the time.Listen closely.
Saul who became Paul bears a very intense truth. Because he created the truth. *clucks*