I still have to know a daytrader who makes money in the long run...

Cutten · Sep 1, 2008

Quote from illiquid:

I'll one up you: how many occupations are there in the world where you need absolutely no one else to earn a paycheck? Of course traders need other traders in aggregate ie, the market itself, but name another profession where you can say "fuck off" (and mean it) to each and every person you meet for an entire year -- and still get paid?

Good point!

Another one - trading is almost the only occupation where all you have to do is be right (on aggregate) and then implement your opinion to make money. There are countless jobs where you can be 100% right, tell everyone - and either they don't listen, or even worse you get fired. A year or two later when reality proves you are right, you don't get a bonus and probably won't even get your job back. Trading is the only field where even if everyone in the world thinks you are wrong, being factually right is guaranteed to make you money.

leo11 · Sep 1, 2008

Any kind of trading CAN be profitable. I made 41% last month daytrading and didn't trade 4 of the days. I had 1 losing day so it was a low stress way of trading for me. Most like the home runs and I take my hat off to them. I'm for consistant money.

TokyoGhetto · Sep 1, 2008

Quote from fearless9:

Does anyone on this thread think that the markets are fractal by nature

regards
f9

The trading system that I am using and refining is based on fractals. I believe that the markets are chaotic but patterns do emerge from this chaos.

I only use fractal time frames (tick, range and volume).

to stay on topic, day traders do make money, the trick is to be consistent. have a look at TIMMAYS blog, he finally cracked $25,000 (from about $12,000 starting last november) . The key is consistency.

Joab · Sep 1, 2008

Quote from crgarcia:

All the daytraders I knew, -knew, past tense-, now are into other jobs/business.

They ALL lost big money, many blew up their accounts, one of them still owes money to the CFM.

In the other hand I know many retired buy-and-holders that have done quite good over the years, with minimal effort.

I also know some very good position traders (including me, thanks god).

I have still yet to meet a super model in person but I'm pretty sure they exist.

goldenarm · Sep 1, 2008

Quote from Cutten:

Trading is the only field where even if everyone in the world thinks you are wrong, being factually right is guaranteed to make you money.

I beg to differ. Being factually right and making a profitable trade are two separate animals. It's all about timing and execution.

TraderZones · Sep 2, 2008

Quote from Alexis:

To make sure you won't miss a "good one", you have to take them all. Absolutely all of them.

Disagree. This is a myth. Which trades will be the winners is unknown. If someone takes half the trades, it is unlikely that the longterm equity curve will be much different.

And if a system is dependently on ONE big winner for its profit {a hoped for grand slam amongst many losses}, it is a useless system.

GermanTrader · Sep 2, 2008

>>Quote from Alexis: To make sure you won't miss a "good one", you have to take them all. Absolutely all of them.>>

I disagree. This is a sure route to broker enrichment and personal bankruptcy. It is far more profitable, not to mention easier on the heart, to design a system that produces few higher-probability moves than many average-probability moves.

illinimatt81 · Sep 2, 2008

Quote from goldenarm:

I knew many consistently net profitable traders. The problem was that they could make much more money at a 9 to 5 job with far less stress. What good is being net profitable if you're only pulling in $30-60K per year after commissions?

That's why most of them are no longer daytrading.

This isn't necessarily failing but rather just not being profitable enough.

Cutten · Sep 3, 2008

Quote from goldenarm:

I beg to differ. Being factually right and making a profitable trade are two separate animals. It's all about timing and execution.

Being factually right means making a profitable trade.

fearless9 · Sep 3, 2008

Quote from goldenarm:

I beg to differ. Being factually right and making a profitable trade are two separate animals. It's all about timing and execution.

Quote from Cutten:

Being factually right means making a profitable trade.

Of course you need to be factually correct in order to make a profitable trade.

The fact is, that the facts are revealed after the trade is concluded and they confirm both direction and stops.

If you are struggling with the sheer simplicity of this statement, then test it.

Tell me if you agree with this statement .......

"The price rose and I made money from my short trade."

Either this statement is factually correct or it is not

regards
f9