I really need your advice

Quote from syswizard:

Don't waste years of time on the above. Instead, become proficient at designing and specifying money-making algos and strategies. You'll be handsomely rewarded.
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I agree with everything syswizard has said. I've been in IT for over 15 years and decided I'd rather not go back. I really fell sorry for anyone looking for entry level jobs in ANY technical field, because it looks like you'll need a minimum of 5 years work experience in the field just to get an entry level job. I'm really nervous about the future of this country regarding entry level technical jobs for the masses. If anyone decides to take technical job courses, definitely make sure you ask what they're job placement rate is for graduates. I suspect its very low.

Like syswizard has said, I would also suggest downloading NinjaTrader (for FREE) and jump into translating your day trading strategies into automated strategies using C#.
 
Quote from Mr_You:

I agree with everything syswizard has said. I've been in IT for over 15 years and decided I'd rather not go back.
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You are one smart man. I've got amazing stories of abuse, ridicule, and outright inhumane behavior as a contractor in this profession. 20 years ago, I was a HERO, now I'm treated like a SLAVE.
It's horrible-beyond-belief - STAY OUT !
 
I've been writing code since 1979. First BASIC on the school mainframe, then on Commodore PETs, then Apples IIs, My first real job was writing games in x86 assembly. I've even worked for Microsoft for several years as an FTE.

I have the credentials to speak. Lucias's post below is pretty much spot on. C# is far easier to learn than C++ and absolutely my language of choice for any newbie. Still, learning to code is a tough road. Myers Brigg IMO have nailed this profession - take the test. See if it's on your list. Many people have tried to be programmers while being spectacularly incapable. You really need the right personality to be successful - but if you do have it, you can get there. One can still make boatloads of money (well, six figures anyway) writing code. You do need to be good and you do need other skills (like communication, risk management, finance). For the moment, the financial arena continues to pay certain devs well.

It's not easy. You'll need to like writing code.

Quote from Lucias:

I used to make demos on the c64. =)

I'm sorry to say that it will be difficult. I started programming when I was 8, started in basic then went to assembly, learned C++, learned C#. Programming well is a performance activity. It requires a lot. It could take up to 10 years to become an expert programming, although it is possible to become strong in as little as 2 years and maybe less if you are specialized.

However, the firms aren't really looking for programmer/traders. They are looking for quants. Minimum requirement would typically be a Phd or heavy math/science degree. You'd need serious math skill.

I personally wouldn't like it, and I enjoy programming. I think you want to get into programming you can do that-- maybe making IPhone apps or custom web apps. If you're creative then it could be fun. But, as far as becoming a quant, would be difficult and probably not rewarding unless you have a love of math and a extreme ability. There are some higher paying jobs for programming at Investment Banks that are "normal" non quant jobs. These look very attractive in terms of salary. However, they would only be interested in somebody with years of experience.

Sure, you can program your own strategies. ETA about 6 months to 1.5 year. That's pretty fun.

PS: I second going with C#. C++ is a most difficult language that is much lower level and only required for performance critical apps. One reason C++ is difficult is that even the people who think they got it screw up.
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TGregg is spot on. It is a personality thing. However, I thought a lot of traders here are of INTJ type which is supposed to be suitable for programming as well.

There are some really bad companies to work for. Engineers are also not natural managers. Those who rise through ranks quite often do not have the EQ required to manage successfully. A lot of companies are also controlled by number-crunchers who love outsourcing.

Nevertheless, you will be amazed how bad some of the self-purported programmers are! Most Computer Science programs do not require writing non-trivial code (more than 10K lines). I suppose if you even come to this forum you do not fall into this category.

There are still good coding jobs in good companies. But you have to find them and they have to like you.

Unfortunately there are no more low-hanging fruits in this economy.
 
Quote from leveragize:


There are still good coding jobs in good companies. But you have to find them and they have to like you.
Unfortunately there are no more low-hanging fruits in this economy.
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These are profound words of wisdom....and ever so much the truth.
Government actions have taken those low-hangers...away.
 
Quote from syswizard:

These are profound words of wisdom....and ever so much the truth.
Government actions have taken those low-hangers...away.
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What a pity programmers never got themselves unionised, eh? With the Socialist-In-Chief about to write the unions a cheque for hundreds of billions in the name of 'job creation', coders can only look at those fire truck drivers in CA making $150K and weep into their hashtables.

Outsourcing was the direct and only fair reaction to trade union intransigence. Now no one can put this fire out..
 
sorry to say, but at 40 it's too late to enter the field and expect to land a 'real job'. you're competing against H1B's who will work cheaper than you, and against 23 year olds with computer science degrees from MIT and berkeley.

it's not enough to simply want it; but are you as sharp mentally as they are?

i worked as a software engineer for 10+ years, mostly C and C++. if you want a GOOD job, then you need to be in the top 10%, which means knowing not only the language, but knowing concepts in OO design and fundamentals like automata theory, OS kernels, etc. if you don't, you'll land a shit job writing device drivers, test scripts, or working in SCM. and you'll get bored of it fast.

i did a lot of technical interviews for my company, and for SW engineering positions we only hired CS grads from top schools. those with CS degrees from lower schools would write test scripts or work in SCM. those without CS degrees wouldn't get an interview.
 
Quote from blackjack007:

sorry to say, but at 40 it's too late to enter the field and expect to land a 'real job'. you're competing against H1B's who will work cheaper than you, and against 23 year olds with computer science degrees from MIT and berkeley.

it's not enough to simply want it; but are you as sharp mentally as they are?

i worked as a software engineer for 10+ years, mostly C and C++. if you want a GOOD job, then you need to be in the top 10%, which means knowing not only the language, but knowing concepts in OO design and fundamentals like automata theory, OS kernels, etc. if you don't, you'll land a shit job writing device drivers, test scripts, or working in SCM. and you'll get bored of it fast.

i did a lot of technical interviews for my company, and for SW engineering positions we only hired CS grads from top schools. those with CS degrees from lower schools would write test scripts or work in SCM. those without CS degrees wouldn't get an interview.
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Obviously different companies have different hiring practices. I have worked with very bright people without CS degrees.

It is not true that older engineers cannot be competitive. They are mentally as sharp as fresh graduates. Experience does not mean much in this world though. But one gains wisdom through aging.

It is true that one must be good to land a good job and stay in it. Being in the top 10% may not be enough, considering that so many people call themselves programmers. (Heck, one needs to be in the top few percents to thrive in any industry.)

Coding is like literature. Knowing the language is just the beginning. But one is never too old to learn.
 
Quote from Giddiyup:

Hello everyone. Please hear me out.

I have been a day trader since 1999 I have decided to hang it up (guess I'm getting too old for this line of work) and approaching my 40s, I am a little apprehensive about a change in careers.

I have ALWAYS wanted to program, and infact in my younger years did some basic stuff with the commodore 64. Ive sometimes regretted not going into that line of work long ago , although trading has been good to me (until recently).

I am prepared to take 2 years out of my life (possibly 4)to learn programming , go to school, whatever it takes, to get into this field and have a chance at this career. I would really like to apply programming skills to get a job with some firm creating trading algos.

Do any of you have any advice you can give me, any tips you could offer?
Would any of you take a few moments of your time to point me towards a direction I should take?

Thank you very much in advance.
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I agree with many posters here -- programming skills are becoming more an more a low priced commodity. The influx of cheap Indian labor is a big part of it. More and more so-called skilled jobs are being shipped to India. It started 30 years ago with manufacturing, then later call centers, and now programmers. It has been happening in other fields, such as chemists for pharma and chemical industries. You used to be able to get a decent job in the US with enough skills. Now, the only safe jobs require top-notch creativity or very good management skills. Bottom line is jobs that used to be the "hands" of the operations are being shipped out. What's left is the brains of the companies (inventors and owners of technologies, managers who oversee outsourcing). It seems though that the tide is starting to turn as labor costs in India and China are growing at a rapid pace.

Actually perhaps one area that is difficult to outsource is IT. You need people to maintain systems, networks, hardware. That cannot be outsourced. It's sort of like plumbing for computer systems. The pay is not as great as it used to be but that might be a way to get a decent job. You just need to get some kind of credentials (degrees, certifications, etc) and get your foot in the door. But it will be a long road, and it will likely not be that lucrative unless you become experienced (10+ years) and gain a reputation.
 
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