Thank you, Vista, for your comments - all quite sound, and areas to which I need to devote much more effort and consideration. I do normally manage several decent entries per day, but I am also prone to some clunkers, which this style does help to minimize. For now, I am trusting that additional experience will slowly reinforce the positives - but this is not to say substantial personal change will not also be required. Best regards ...
I Need More Accountability - Sim P/L
- Thread starter mephistoII
- Start date
Today started off well enough, but I eventually allowed myself to get caught in the chop, and handed back most of the gains. Starting to sense a pattern to my Friday trading sessions 
Enjoy your weekend ...
Enjoy your weekend ...This was a post in the Spydertraders' Jack Hershey Futures Forum. I was prompting Bundlemaker to expand on what he posted. Thought the exchange that followed would be good to post.
Original post:
Bundlemaker
For those of you still struggling or doubtful, I thought I'd add my most recently available 2 cents. Without question I am seeing things that I couldn't before. I'd have swore what I now see didn't even previously exist, and of course, that's ridiculous.
The three things I'm doing to achieve this new found skill are as follows:
1) force the gaussians to fit the channels: doing so teaches one how to really see the split bars correctly and to stay on the right resolution level
2) I started to trust what the volume was telling me, particulary with potential flaws. This has kept me out of more mistakes than I can begin to mention.
3) Try something different, anything different. There is an old saying in the NLP world: you can't see what you can't see. Human sight is highly subjective and filtered. Instead of getting angry that you can't see what others are, try going for a walk, laughing out loud (this really really is powerful) or the opposite of what you normally do (which requires you to be aware of what you normally do, not an easy task by any means). Doing any of these causes physiological shifts which change in a very real way how your brain processes things.
I am still in observation/annotation mode, but I can tell you that most of my annotations for points, ftt's, hvs, etc are usually right on on the bar I annotate. I am seeing into the future often by as much as 3 or 4 bars. And the occaisional outlier bar (eg: a single bar with odd volume) no longer causes me to panic).
I hope this post helps someone, if I can think of other internal shifts I've made I will post.
Ezzy
Any chance you could elaborate on specific things or examples of what you're seeing now that you weren't before? Or in what way you weren't trusting before?
Not trying to be a pain, as I know sometimes these things can be difficult to explain (without a chart handy that just happens to have the specific example). Just thought if there were certain gray areas you worked out it would help everyone if we could see either see it or hear an example getting broken down.
For example I get unsettled if there is a volume spike against me and immediately start looking closer thinking I may have missed a change signal when it turns out later to be something minor, or the bar turns around and finishes in the original trend direction.
Original post:
Bundlemaker
For those of you still struggling or doubtful, I thought I'd add my most recently available 2 cents. Without question I am seeing things that I couldn't before. I'd have swore what I now see didn't even previously exist, and of course, that's ridiculous.
The three things I'm doing to achieve this new found skill are as follows:
1) force the gaussians to fit the channels: doing so teaches one how to really see the split bars correctly and to stay on the right resolution level
2) I started to trust what the volume was telling me, particulary with potential flaws. This has kept me out of more mistakes than I can begin to mention.
3) Try something different, anything different. There is an old saying in the NLP world: you can't see what you can't see. Human sight is highly subjective and filtered. Instead of getting angry that you can't see what others are, try going for a walk, laughing out loud (this really really is powerful) or the opposite of what you normally do (which requires you to be aware of what you normally do, not an easy task by any means). Doing any of these causes physiological shifts which change in a very real way how your brain processes things.
I am still in observation/annotation mode, but I can tell you that most of my annotations for points, ftt's, hvs, etc are usually right on on the bar I annotate. I am seeing into the future often by as much as 3 or 4 bars. And the occaisional outlier bar (eg: a single bar with odd volume) no longer causes me to panic).
I hope this post helps someone, if I can think of other internal shifts I've made I will post.
Ezzy
Any chance you could elaborate on specific things or examples of what you're seeing now that you weren't before? Or in what way you weren't trusting before?
Not trying to be a pain, as I know sometimes these things can be difficult to explain (without a chart handy that just happens to have the specific example). Just thought if there were certain gray areas you worked out it would help everyone if we could see either see it or hear an example getting broken down.
For example I get unsettled if there is a volume spike against me and immediately start looking closer thinking I may have missed a change signal when it turns out later to be something minor, or the bar turns around and finishes in the original trend direction.
Bundlemaker
This is a great question with an answer that may surprise you. Your wording, almost exactly, is how I would ask my teachers/mentors. What I have found is that trying to focus on specific examples is exactly what WASN'T working for me for so long. Speaking for myself (but I strongly suspect is similar to most others) is that by focusing on specific examples you are focusing on finding what doesn't work. This is done on an unconscious level.
This is also an example of "doing the opposite". I am reminded of the Seinfeld episode with opposite George. In this case, opposite means NOT focusing on the specific examples and instead focusing on the big chunk.
Now, this isnât necessarily what I would tell everybody. For instance, if you had told me you were focusing on the big chunk, idealized picture stuff, then I'd say go and study the specific examples.
Doing the opposite can be quite a challenge, because first off very few human beings really realize what their behavior and thought patterns are. And if they do, they fight the change. I appreciate this isn't the answer you were looking for, but I can virtually guarantee it is an answer that will provide progress if followed.
Good trading to you.
PS If this makes sense to you or feel others would benefit feel free to copy/paste this to the thread and we can discuss it further.
---------------------------------
Ezzy
This is probably too far off topic for the journal.
Focusing on the specific examples is to find the correct way to view it. That said, it could be from several perspectives. While I'm looking for a way to make it work out, or clarity, it could be from a loss avoidance view rather than positive resolution.
As you mentioned, it is very difficult to ID your thinking, or the more hidden: what is affecting your thoughts that you don't realize.
I appreciate the idea of changing what you do. I've even looked at the charts upside down, trying to get a perspective to make things click. I have a saying, "if what your doing isn't working, try something else". It's finding the "something else" that's difficult.
There's quite a bit of frustration looking at a chart over and over and not seeing anything different. I have several old charts I go through to see how I have progressed since the last review. The nagging thought is that while looking at the isolated example, there is a bigger picture context that's being missed - maybe not the larger channel, but pace or "where we are in the cycle", something.
I recently read an example of students coming into a country learning a foreign language. The ones that learned the slowest were the ones that tried to get everything correct and worried about screwing up - even if they had taken language classes. Yet others with no background in the language, that didn't care how their pronunciation was, or if they made mistakes, learned many times faster. They were conversational in 1 - 3 months.
There's a reason that example keeps coming to mind.
This is a great question with an answer that may surprise you. Your wording, almost exactly, is how I would ask my teachers/mentors. What I have found is that trying to focus on specific examples is exactly what WASN'T working for me for so long. Speaking for myself (but I strongly suspect is similar to most others) is that by focusing on specific examples you are focusing on finding what doesn't work. This is done on an unconscious level.
This is also an example of "doing the opposite". I am reminded of the Seinfeld episode with opposite George. In this case, opposite means NOT focusing on the specific examples and instead focusing on the big chunk.
Now, this isnât necessarily what I would tell everybody. For instance, if you had told me you were focusing on the big chunk, idealized picture stuff, then I'd say go and study the specific examples.
Doing the opposite can be quite a challenge, because first off very few human beings really realize what their behavior and thought patterns are. And if they do, they fight the change. I appreciate this isn't the answer you were looking for, but I can virtually guarantee it is an answer that will provide progress if followed.
Good trading to you.
PS If this makes sense to you or feel others would benefit feel free to copy/paste this to the thread and we can discuss it further.
---------------------------------
Ezzy
This is probably too far off topic for the journal.
Focusing on the specific examples is to find the correct way to view it. That said, it could be from several perspectives. While I'm looking for a way to make it work out, or clarity, it could be from a loss avoidance view rather than positive resolution.
As you mentioned, it is very difficult to ID your thinking, or the more hidden: what is affecting your thoughts that you don't realize.
I appreciate the idea of changing what you do. I've even looked at the charts upside down, trying to get a perspective to make things click. I have a saying, "if what your doing isn't working, try something else". It's finding the "something else" that's difficult.
There's quite a bit of frustration looking at a chart over and over and not seeing anything different. I have several old charts I go through to see how I have progressed since the last review. The nagging thought is that while looking at the isolated example, there is a bigger picture context that's being missed - maybe not the larger channel, but pace or "where we are in the cycle", something.
I recently read an example of students coming into a country learning a foreign language. The ones that learned the slowest were the ones that tried to get everything correct and worried about screwing up - even if they had taken language classes. Yet others with no background in the language, that didn't care how their pronunciation was, or if they made mistakes, learned many times faster. They were conversational in 1 - 3 months.
There's a reason that example keeps coming to mind.
Bundlemaker
I'm gonna take a stab at a couple of suggestions for you, do with them as you please. And, if you wish to continue this conversation I will do my best to pass on what I know.
The single outstanding difference for me was the attitude with which I approached trading and for that matter my whole life. Many wonderful things are showing up. I have made a daily practice what is taught in the movie The Secret, I work on myself A LOT, and I read and use the philosophy espoused by Abraham (see www.abraham-hicks.com). This sort of spiritual approach may or may not be right for you, but I can tell you that without exception the people I'm conversing with who are successful know and apply the concepts.
Next, is the attitude with which I actually trade. Like everyone else, I get upset when things don't go the way I expect them to. The single best solution to this is to force yourself to belly laugh. This is most definitely NOT some new age mumbo jumbo. Laughing instantly changes the neuro-peptides in your brain and by extension the various paths that the flow of electricity takes. This is really worth practicing.
Next, keep up a continuous mental scan to verify you are asking the major question (what do I need for continuation or change) but also verify you aren't focused on a single piece of data (ie don't let one bar all by itself out of context cause you to make a decision). Then make sure you stay out of prediction. Search for my posts by user name and you'll find some posts on this. I apologize but don't recall where, but they've been since February. Constantly monitor your mental state. If you are experiencing ANY level of discomfort, you are in a state of prediction. It's a subtle thing but huge in consequences.
Work on this for a while and let me know how it goes.
-----------------------------------------------
Ezzy
All suggestions are appreciated. The Secret was a great movie.
As far as the data sets, I don't have a problem with 1 data decisions, sometimes with only 2 it can still be trying. Depending on your resolution a single bar can have several change signals.
Continuation and Change are the keys. That's the focus.
I agree completely with changing the mental state. If you can't, it's better to walk away or take a break rather than continue in a poor state. Regroup, shift states and pick it up again. I find that makes a big difference in learning. I'll try the belly laugh next time.
I'm gonna take a stab at a couple of suggestions for you, do with them as you please. And, if you wish to continue this conversation I will do my best to pass on what I know.
The single outstanding difference for me was the attitude with which I approached trading and for that matter my whole life. Many wonderful things are showing up. I have made a daily practice what is taught in the movie The Secret, I work on myself A LOT, and I read and use the philosophy espoused by Abraham (see www.abraham-hicks.com). This sort of spiritual approach may or may not be right for you, but I can tell you that without exception the people I'm conversing with who are successful know and apply the concepts.
Next, is the attitude with which I actually trade. Like everyone else, I get upset when things don't go the way I expect them to. The single best solution to this is to force yourself to belly laugh. This is most definitely NOT some new age mumbo jumbo. Laughing instantly changes the neuro-peptides in your brain and by extension the various paths that the flow of electricity takes. This is really worth practicing.
Next, keep up a continuous mental scan to verify you are asking the major question (what do I need for continuation or change) but also verify you aren't focused on a single piece of data (ie don't let one bar all by itself out of context cause you to make a decision). Then make sure you stay out of prediction. Search for my posts by user name and you'll find some posts on this. I apologize but don't recall where, but they've been since February. Constantly monitor your mental state. If you are experiencing ANY level of discomfort, you are in a state of prediction. It's a subtle thing but huge in consequences.
Work on this for a while and let me know how it goes.
-----------------------------------------------
Ezzy
All suggestions are appreciated. The Secret was a great movie.
As far as the data sets, I don't have a problem with 1 data decisions, sometimes with only 2 it can still be trying. Depending on your resolution a single bar can have several change signals.
Continuation and Change are the keys. That's the focus.
I agree completely with changing the mental state. If you can't, it's better to walk away or take a break rather than continue in a poor state. Regroup, shift states and pick it up again. I find that makes a big difference in learning. I'll try the belly laugh next time.
Thanks, Ezzy, for providing this exchange between you and bundlemaker. This offers some excellent food for thought. A quick read of the above is straightforward enough, but it will be truly internalizing these ideas and making the required personal shifts, where the real work lies ahead.
I feel I will have no problem finding the required occurrences for eliciting the 'belly laugh' ( I do realize my trading can be quite comical - heheh)
Best regards ...
P.S. Regarding examples, the last couple of days provided what seemed to be almost carbon-copy Pt. 3's. Please check back later today and I will hopefully have posted the chart snips to what I'm referring.
For now, have grass ... will mow
I feel I will have no problem finding the required occurrences for eliciting the 'belly laugh' ( I do realize my trading can be quite comical - heheh)
Best regards ...
P.S. Regarding examples, the last couple of days provided what seemed to be almost carbon-copy Pt. 3's. Please check back later today and I will hopefully have posted the chart snips to what I'm referring.
For now, have grass ... will mow
I'll keep an eye on this thread and if anyone has any questions about my approach I'll answer and help as best I can.
It's interesting because you never know what is going to make it stick or click. You can hear the same thing many times, said in a slightly different way, and one of them will create a picture that makes it click - you now "get it" and it's permanent.
Mak's view is slightly different from Spydertrader's which is slightly different from Jack's. And hearing them all helps.
That's why I like to hear everyones perspective 'cause it's all a bit different and you never know which view resonates with you. Kind of like when you hear metaphors of the market: Tides - ebb and flow, Waves (and poor surfing analogies, lol), Mountains and Valleys, Wind and Rays. Floors and Ceilings, Walls. Even animal analogies, (Lions and Tigers and Bears . . .), Herds, and so on. For volume: Gas, Fuel, Push, Pace, Thrust, Bouncing balls.
These all have a vivid picture associated.
Break trading down to continuation and change, taking the data set, I'm not sure a picture can be attached to that. Or it might even be a hindrance making one data point stand out more than the others.
-EZ
Try this:
Clear your mind completely turn on the simulator, watch price only (no FTTs, no gaussians) for 10 minutes or so then enter on the first impulse you have. Reverse on the very next impulse. Repeat until you see what I am getting at.
It is amazing how you will have bought every high and sold every low, often to the tick.
This is why you have to retrain the brain. I am in awe at how the market moves so counter-intuitively, to cause the maximum discomfort to the hip-shooters.
Take a break and have a really good laugh at what the market "made you do".
Then repeat the above exercise on the simulator with full consciousness of FTTs and gaussians, annotating each micro-channel. You will feel in control and in partnership with what is going on.
If the terrain is too difficult change your tactics.
Great sequence of posts Bundlemaker.
Thanks, bundlemaker - we will try to leave you enough time to trade ... occasionally
Best regards ...