Thanks. But I figure I didn't get to where I'm at by myself. I had a lot of help along the way from others so A) Just paying it forward and B) I can't put a brain together, or make a mouth and fingers. Just using the tools that I was provided.
I need help with trading options
- Thread starter ilovemoney01
- Start date
Well, if the science of textual criticism has taught us anything, it's that everyone contracts themselves. It's almost a mathematical fact.
Though yeah, I have caught a couple of contradictions of his that I don't necessarily agree with.
At the same time, if anyone has better Options Information available? I'd be all ears. That's the single best source I've ever seen for new retail traders. He lets people see every single one of his trades in real time, and his performance and DNA in the markets going back to the 1980's, can't ever be denied.
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Whilst I admire Sossy's skills as an entrepreneur / entertainer ... I have a different view ... which might be worth considering before deciding whether TastyTrade is a good source for new retail traders
#1 Sosnoff refuses to disclose his trading performance, or any of their so-called 'on-air' talent
#2 The new retail traders that Sosnoff has mentored under the "Where Do I Start" label have all lost money
#3 Sosnoff spectacularly blew up his daughter's trading account by doing a 'Cordier' and shorting NDX into a massive rally ... and to save his embarrassment ... the Video recordings from that series have mysteriously dis-appeared from the archive
#4 Sosnoff was ... and still is ... the biggest supporter / promoter of Karen the SuperFraud ... who he still reckons is the best retail trader he has ever seen ... who blew up trading the teenies
#5 Sosnoff claims to be a 'contrarian' trader ... but in fact ... nearly all is trades are 'trend following' as he adjusts trades-gone-bad by rolling up the 'untested' side ... ever wonder why most of his trades end up as 'inverted' ( Guts ) strangles
#6 Sosnoff can't remember most of the trades he has on ... usually up to 100 different underlying instruments ... sheer madness for a retail trader ... and often relies on some eagle eyed viewer to remind him when to take action on a trade that he has forgotten about
1) Is just flat out false. You can follow every single trade the guy does, in real-time as the trades are put on: https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/bob-the-trader
2) Not surprising really. I don't believe in mentoring, because most people do not have what it takes to be a trader. What I have found, is that even if they are presented with good information, their lack of skill and cognitive dissonance will over-ride every fact presented to them; because they refuse to embrace discomfort. You could have the Big D himself mentoring someone, and the person turns out to be a colossal failure. As the ol' saying goes, you can publish your best strat on the front cover of the Wall Street Journal, and no one would make money from it, because everyone would want to screw with it and "Tweak it".
3) I don't even understand this point.
4) And? Do you know exactly what she did? I mean, exactly. I do, I read the brief. Personally? It would never happen to me, because reporting any thing other than Net Liq is stupid, from a CLIENT / PARTNER PSYCHOLOGY standpoint. And I have a good Accountant, and a good Lawyer. This is a problem that results from people not having their **$^ together, when it comes to the accounting, legal and SG&A of their Firm. More than just "outright fraud". She got nailed, as well she should (Plus, her strategy was a bit stupid, and subject to drifting into a 'rip-tide' that pulls accounts down). Point being? Those merits can be discussed as traders. I disagree with what she did, would never get caught that way myself, but understand how it happens to people. I don't know what Tom's view is, because I could care less.
5) Again, I don't even understand this point. Tom's strong suit (even though he claims otherwise) is NOT that he understands things from a Quantitative Basis. He just doesn't. The guy struggles to understand the import of Sharpe Ratio, and the theory behind how it's constructed. I can't even believe they let that video air. Cringe doesn't even begin to describe my reaction. But again, I don't even understand the point. Like, at all. He trade events in, at extremes, and then his standpoint IS contrarian. Everthing else, is trade management. Some of the best traders I know, are "Dems and Does" kinda guys ... who are ... shall we say ... not exactly "heavy" in the IQ department.
6) In that, I agree. He trades what a Partner and I call "Big Book Non-Correlation". He makes out his positive expectancy comes from his risk overlay. I've seen a lot of guys trade that way ... from their quote / stat page, when they have more capital to deploy. To expect retail traders to be able to do that? Is madness.
My point, is what does ANY of that to do, with what is found at https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
2) Not surprising really. I don't believe in mentoring, because most people do not have what it takes to be a trader. What I have found, is that even if they are presented with good information, their lack of skill and cognitive dissonance will over-ride every fact presented to them; because they refuse to embrace discomfort. You could have the Big D himself mentoring someone, and the person turns out to be a colossal failure. As the ol' saying goes, you can publish your best strat on the front cover of the Wall Street Journal, and no one would make money from it, because everyone would want to screw with it and "Tweak it".
3) I don't even understand this point.
4) And? Do you know exactly what she did? I mean, exactly. I do, I read the brief. Personally? It would never happen to me, because reporting any thing other than Net Liq is stupid, from a CLIENT / PARTNER PSYCHOLOGY standpoint. And I have a good Accountant, and a good Lawyer. This is a problem that results from people not having their **$^ together, when it comes to the accounting, legal and SG&A of their Firm. More than just "outright fraud". She got nailed, as well she should (Plus, her strategy was a bit stupid, and subject to drifting into a 'rip-tide' that pulls accounts down). Point being? Those merits can be discussed as traders. I disagree with what she did, would never get caught that way myself, but understand how it happens to people. I don't know what Tom's view is, because I could care less.
5) Again, I don't even understand this point. Tom's strong suit (even though he claims otherwise) is NOT that he understands things from a Quantitative Basis. He just doesn't. The guy struggles to understand the import of Sharpe Ratio, and the theory behind how it's constructed. I can't even believe they let that video air. Cringe doesn't even begin to describe my reaction. But again, I don't even understand the point. Like, at all. He trade events in, at extremes, and then his standpoint IS contrarian. Everthing else, is trade management. Some of the best traders I know, are "Dems and Does" kinda guys ... who are ... shall we say ... not exactly "heavy" in the IQ department.
6) In that, I agree. He trades what a Partner and I call "Big Book Non-Correlation". He makes out his positive expectancy comes from his risk overlay. I've seen a lot of guys trade that way ... from their quote / stat page, when they have more capital to deploy. To expect retail traders to be able to do that? Is madness.
My point, is what does ANY of that to do, with what is found at https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
For some of us amateur retails, following tastytrade's approach of writing high probability calls and puts, spreads... to "collect income" and "trade often, trade small" is a sure way to make our brokers rich. In 2013, after six months and hundreds of trade often trade small, I netted negative but my broker was laughing all the way to the bank. So much so that they cut my commissions because of my trading volume.
I have been doing the opposite of what they preach since. But to each his/her own.
Retail traders never cease to amaze me.
As much as I am against mentoring now? I did have a rather famous guy mentor me when I first started.
I'd be HEMORRAGING MONEY if I traded like that guy. He's audited. It works for him. But I'm thankful for his information, because it taught me to put things together for myself.
If you traded small, traded often, and traded high probability setups? I can think of FIVE THOUSAND ways you could get cut up in the markets. It will work for some people, and not work for others. The point is?
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO!
I am convinced, there is NO way to learn trading ... NONE ... that doesn't involve you doing exactly what a "Mentor" says to do, and not getting beat up; if not blow-up an account If you don't get beat up, then you're never ... ever ... ever ... going to truly learn trading. Every professional trader I know ... has at some point early in their career, lost the equivalent of a house, or a car.
All of which, is why I don't believe in mentoring. Every individual has to turn themselves into a trader.
The ironic thing? Is guys that "fault" mentors? Probably have them to thank for the base information they used to put together an approach for themselves.
Our options positions at our firm are small. Limited to a segment that is 5% of the total portfolio. Small. But the options we trade in there? Are LARGE positions. They all are defined risk (which Tom doesn't like), and there are not a lot of trades each month. OH, and they are all short-dated. Exactly the opposite of what Tasty Trade preaches.
Who cares.
People have to turn themselves into traders, and find what works for them.
So, the above being said ... I ASK AGAIN ...
What does ANY of that to do, with the base information about trading options found at https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
As much as I am against mentoring now? I did have a rather famous guy mentor me when I first started.
I'd be HEMORRAGING MONEY if I traded like that guy. He's audited. It works for him. But I'm thankful for his information, because it taught me to put things together for myself.
If you traded small, traded often, and traded high probability setups? I can think of FIVE THOUSAND ways you could get cut up in the markets. It will work for some people, and not work for others. The point is?
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO!
I am convinced, there is NO way to learn trading ... NONE ... that doesn't involve you doing exactly what a "Mentor" says to do, and not getting beat up; if not blow-up an account If you don't get beat up, then you're never ... ever ... ever ... going to truly learn trading. Every professional trader I know ... has at some point early in their career, lost the equivalent of a house, or a car.
All of which, is why I don't believe in mentoring. Every individual has to turn themselves into a trader.
The ironic thing? Is guys that "fault" mentors? Probably have them to thank for the base information they used to put together an approach for themselves.
Our options positions at our firm are small. Limited to a segment that is 5% of the total portfolio. Small. But the options we trade in there? Are LARGE positions. They all are defined risk (which Tom doesn't like), and there are not a lot of trades each month. OH, and they are all short-dated. Exactly the opposite of what Tasty Trade preaches.
Who cares.
People have to turn themselves into traders, and find what works for them.
So, the above being said ... I ASK AGAIN ...
What does ANY of that to do, with the base information about trading options found at https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
Made me think of something else ...
I crack up listening to retail traders call in to their show each morning on what they should do with individual positions.
Talk about leading people to water ...
Well, I put this position on, and I want to manage the winners? And ... uh ... I'm up 50% ... so what do I do ??? ... uhhh ... duuhhhh
People don't want to figure things out for themselves. Which is why people lose money trading. They want someone to TELL them what to do, and hold their hand each step of the way. I've seen it time and time again. My god, the above example, they will STATE what they are looking to do, and what they should do, and then almost ASK for permission to do it.
And if it isn't a person telling them what to do? They look for a "Red Light" or a "Green Light" idiotic indicator, to stand in as proxy, and tell them what to do.
Which again, is why I don't believe in Mentoring from the standpoint that some mentor will "Turn you into a trader". Wrong. You have to turn yourself into a trader. The most you can do, is take a basic model, bang your head against the wall (as all of us have had to) and learn what works for you, and how to manage the processes; and embrace the discomfort of each decision.
You can't do that? God himself could tell you what to do, and you'd lose ...
So again, for the OP ... the best place to get that basic idea of what options are, how they move, why they move, what the principles you need to keep in mind? Different strategies? I can't think of a better place than https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
I crack up listening to retail traders call in to their show each morning on what they should do with individual positions.
Talk about leading people to water ...
Well, I put this position on, and I want to manage the winners? And ... uh ... I'm up 50% ... so what do I do ??? ... uhhh ... duuhhhh
People don't want to figure things out for themselves. Which is why people lose money trading. They want someone to TELL them what to do, and hold their hand each step of the way. I've seen it time and time again. My god, the above example, they will STATE what they are looking to do, and what they should do, and then almost ASK for permission to do it.
And if it isn't a person telling them what to do? They look for a "Red Light" or a "Green Light" idiotic indicator, to stand in as proxy, and tell them what to do.
Which again, is why I don't believe in Mentoring from the standpoint that some mentor will "Turn you into a trader". Wrong. You have to turn yourself into a trader. The most you can do, is take a basic model, bang your head against the wall (as all of us have had to) and learn what works for you, and how to manage the processes; and embrace the discomfort of each decision.
You can't do that? God himself could tell you what to do, and you'd lose ...
So again, for the OP ... the best place to get that basic idea of what options are, how they move, why they move, what the principles you need to keep in mind? Different strategies? I can't think of a better place than https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn
I watched all of their early videos (through early 2013), their "research on outcomes", especially loved the Karen interviews as she became someone I looked up to. I learned to trade "high probability option trades", trade often trade small....
So you did, exactly what you should not do.
Don't look up to anyone. Not me. Not the Big D. Not D-Boy. Not Charlie D. Not Tom Sosnoff.
No one. Guru's, for the above stated reason, are stupid.
And you did EXACTLY what they talked about. And probably got cut to pieces. Which is exactly what my point above was.
Fine ... if ones dislike Tom (I don't care for, or not care for the guy. I just allow for other opinions and think for msyelf) and want another source of ...
INSERT DISCLAIMER: FIND A BASE PRINCIPLE OUTLINE OF OPTIONS ... HOW THEY WORK ... WHAT THEY ARE ... BASIC STRATEGIES ... HOW TO MODIFY THEM FOR YOURSELF ... NO GURU's OPTION TRADING CARRIES RISK AND YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR PERSONAL RISK TOLER ... BLAH BLAH BLAH
Another place, besides https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn would be an Option Trader I respect, who designed Option Platform Software that T1 Banks used to use and is used in the Professional Space .... Silexx? Check out the book Michael Williams of Silexx Financial put together some time ago on Options. You can find it out there in the ether.
It's old, but again, Michael is a guy that turned himself into a trader, and wrote extensively his thoughts on Options and wrote a book about it (which you can pick, take apart, take and leave, and build ideas for yourself)
INSERT DISCLAIMER: FIND A BASE PRINCIPLE OUTLINE OF OPTIONS ... HOW THEY WORK ... WHAT THEY ARE ... BASIC STRATEGIES ... HOW TO MODIFY THEM FOR YOURSELF ... NO GURU's OPTION TRADING CARRIES RISK AND YOU HAVE TO FIND YOUR PERSONAL RISK TOLER ... BLAH BLAH BLAH
Another place, besides https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/learn would be an Option Trader I respect, who designed Option Platform Software that T1 Banks used to use and is used in the Professional Space .... Silexx? Check out the book Michael Williams of Silexx Financial put together some time ago on Options. You can find it out there in the ether.
It's old, but again, Michael is a guy that turned himself into a trader, and wrote extensively his thoughts on Options and wrote a book about it (which you can pick, take apart, take and leave, and build ideas for yourself)