I need career advice. Degree in Computer Enginerring?

Quote from axeman:

What BS. Some of the best computer geeks ive known
were degree-less hacks.

I did get my degree in comp sci, and im a real hack, but
a degree in comp sci means nothing.

Its all about track record. I cant tell you how many
comp sci PHD's I have rejected in techie interviews, only
to hire the real hacker with a high school diploma.


peace

axeman
More...

Depends what you are doing .... To write basic business software then perhaps ..... to implement systems on which someones life may depend - no. However, in my experience I have hired non-degree people in the past but very few .... and in these cases they were largely handling support roles....

Yes, its true: Some phD's are not programmers - but then why would they want to be ?
 
Your implying that a person without a degree is not capable
of coding mission critical systems.

That has not been my experience. Real hard core programmers
who are that way because they love it, write the best
and most solid code out there.

I would never determine who is capable of writing the
best mission critical systems by their degree.
Way too risky.

I would look at their track record, and see if they
have actually achieved that instead.

Plenty of phd's are so theory based, they couldnt code
a complex, stable system to save their life.


peace

axeman


Quote from CalTrader:



Depends what you are doing .... To write basic business software then perhaps ..... to implement systems on which someones life may depend - no. However, in my experience I have hired non-degree people in the past but very few .... and in these cases they were largely handling support roles....

Yes, its true: Some phD's are not programmers - but then why would they want to be ?
More...
 
Quote from CalTrader:


I like the saying "with change comes opportunity". Change is good if you embrace it.
More...


i like the saying, (paraphrasing) "in times of great change [which is basically all the time], it is the learners that prosper, whilst the learned find themselves beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists"
 
You need to find out what kind of IT job that you 'd like & capable of doing, check what is required including training, experience & certification. It is not for everyone. Best to find someone as your mentor, show you how to get trained & get you a job. It will take a long time & lots of hard work.

Since you like trading so much, why not to be a broker first. It is much easier & you may make lots of $. IT jobs do not pay well now.
 
Quote from axeman:

Your implying that a person without a degree is not capable
of coding mission critical systems.

That has not been my experience. Real hard core programmers
who are that way because they love it, write the best
and most solid code out there.

I would never determine who is capable of writing the
best mission critical systems by their degree.
Way too risky.

I would look at their track record, and see if they
have actually achieved that instead.

Plenty of phd's are so theory based, they couldnt code
a complex, stable system to save their life.


peace

axeman
More...

I did not say that I would take a fresh, no experience college degreed individual and put them to work without experience. Let me be more specific: In my 20 years of experience writing software systems I can count on one hand the people that I either hired, or who I worked with that were building complicated software systems and had never finished college.

FYI: When I worked for the US government our entire software team was composed of phD's and I can assure you that these systems are far beyond anything you have seen in your professional life in terms of complexity and stability ...

So much for your theory ....
 
"I can assure you that these systems are far beyond anything you have seen in your professional life in terms of complexity and stability ..."

In a government system? LMAO :D
Far beyond anything I have seen in my professional career?
Now thats a wild guess and a very empty assertion.
You have NO idea what I have seen in my professional career.

In my 24 years of software experience, I can count on
1 FINGER, the number of comp sci phd's I have met
that could build systems better than the best
computer hacks I have met in the field with degrees.
Make that zero fingers.

I work for a large, successful, tech company, who determines
position on 100% merit, and not degrees. A small group
of super techies sit at the top of the chain, and maybe
only one of them has their PHD in comp sci.

The fact is, in the techi industry, the industry leads the
colleges by at least a year in technology.
If you want to learn the latest technologies,
you get it from the field, not from some book.

So much for your theory...

peace

axeman


Quote from CalTrader:



I did not say that I would take a fresh, no experience college degreed individual and put them to work without experience. Let me be more specific: In my 20 years of experience writing software systems I can count on one hand the people that I either hired, or who I worked with that were building complicated software systems and had never finished college.

FYI: When I worked for the US government our entire software team was composed of phD's and I can assure you that these systems are far beyond anything you have seen in your professional life in terms of complexity and stability ...

So much for your theory ....
More...
 
Quote from axeman:


The fact is, in the techi industry, the industry leads the
colleges by at least a year in technology.
If you want to learn the latest technologies,
you get it from the field, not from some book.

So much for your theory...

peace

axeman
More...

The above is absolutely true

I would say that a degree is almost always necessary. I never saw anyone interviewed that did not have a degree in *something*

That said, I dont think it is really necessary - axeman is abosolutely correct that everything worthwhile is learned on the job. I think that degrees are really a cultural thing, and a CYA for the hiring manager. Once you have had your first job, your experience is all that matters for any non-management job.
 
Yuuuuuuuuup.... the only reason I even bothered getting
a degree at all is because of the short sighted managers
in corporate america. I skipped all my classes and aced them.

I could code the pants off of all but one of my PHD instructors
in college. It was a joke. ( The one prof was a real hacker,
who got his PHD only because he wanted to be a teacher )

Caltrader should talk to my buddy with the high school
diploma who was pulling $200/hour before the tech
field went to crap. How do you get $200/hour without
a comp sci degree?? Skills + track record.


peace

axeman


Quote from swtrader:



The above is absolutely true

I would say that a degree is almost always necessary. I never saw anyone interviewed that did not have a degree in *something*

That said, I dont think it is really necessary - axeman is abosolutely correct that everything worthwhile is learned on the job. I think that degrees are really a cultural thing, and a CYA for the hiring manager. Once you have had your first job, your experience is all that matters for any non-management job.
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

Yuuuuuuuuup.... the only reason I even bothered getting
a degree at all is because of the short sighted managers
in corporate america. I skipped all my classes and aced them.

I could code the pants off of all but one of my PHD instructors
in college. It was a joke. ( The one prof was a real hacker,
who got his PHD only because he wanted to be a teacher )

Caltrader should talk to my buddy with the high school
diploma who was pulling $200/hour before the tech
field went to crap. How do you get $200/hour without
a comp sci degree?? Skills + track record.


peace

axeman
More...

LOL:
How do you make more than you or your buddy ? Skills plus knowledge - that means study somewhere with somebody that knows a thing or two. Some of us are still making money precisely because we perhaps know a bit more than people who didn't take the time to become experts ....

Sounds like you need a job: just drop me a private mail with your resume ... If you think you have the balls to try to pass my interview then I encourage you to try to to pass our tests ..
 
Quote from axeman:

"
You have NO idea what I have seen in my professional career.


I work for a large, successful, tech company, who determines
position on 100% merit, and not degrees. A small group
of super techies sit at the top of the chain, and maybe
only one of them has their PHD in comp sci.

The fact is, in the techi industry, the industry leads the
colleges by at least a year in technology.
If you want to learn the latest technologies,
you get it from the field, not from some book.

So much for your theory...

peace

axeman
More...

I wish you and your company the best of luck - you will need it.
 
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