I highly reccommend this book

[CaptainObvious]

Just finished it. 23 Things They Don’t Tell You About Capitalism by Ha-Joon Chang. If you can get past your partisanship, be it left or right, it's an interesting take on economic systems.

http://totalinvestor.blogspot.com/2011/04/23-things-they-dont-tell-you-about.html

 

[Ricter]

Good find, Cap'n.

 

[buzzy2]

This guy is pumping protectionism and statism. He says South Korea got rich with them. Maybe, I don't know, but for each protectionism success story, there are tens of abject failure stories.

To give an example, what is the preponderant economic philosophy of latin american countries? you got it, protectionism, statism and corporatism.

 

[Ricter]

Latin American tariffs:

www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/app/article.aspx?id=155

(Note the NAFTA rate.)

EU, 6% & 16%, industrial and agricultural.

Just a snapshot.

 

[buzzy2]

Quote from Ricter:
Latin American tariffs:
www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/app/article.aspx?id=155
(Note the NAFTA rate.)
EU, 6% & 16%, industrial and agricultural.
Just a snapshot.

Yep, that's pretty accurate, as of right now.
But they didn't get poor with these rates, you should review their trade policy in the seventies and eighties, and how their poverty hit bottom in the eighties in the midst of highly protectionist and statist economic policies.
Now they are more free-trade less protectionist, more careful about fiscal deficits, and look at them now, they are still poor but less so.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from buzzy2:

Yep, that's pretty accurate, as of right now.
But they didn't get poor with these rates, you should review their trade policy in the seventies and eighties, and how their poverty hit bottom in the eighties in the midst of highly protectionist and statist economic policies.
Now they are more free-trade less protectionist, more careful about fiscal deficits, and look at them now, they are still poor but less so.

You mean, back in the banana republic days?

 

[buzzy2]

Quote from Ricter:
You mean, back in the banana republic days?

LOL, exactly.

That region in fact used to be the most protectionist in the world up to the 1930's, and they were dirt poor already.

Now some lobbyists and their economists spin doctors are using the current recession as excuse to apply 3rd world economic policies in the USA, and you know why? Because with those policies a few businessmen get obscenely rich while most of the population starve, just like in Latin America.

That's how you turn a country into a banana republic.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Quote from buzzy2:

This guy is pumping protectionism and statism. He says South Korea got rich with them. Maybe, I don't know, but for each protectionism success story, there are tens of abject failure stories.

To give an example, what is the preponderant economic philosophy of latin american countries? you got it, protectionism, statism and corporatism.

It can appear that way, but I don't really think he's promoting that angle. I heard him give a lecture awhile back which prompted me to get the book. He is in no way anti-capitalism. In fact he said his view on capitalism was like Churchill's view on democracy. It's the worst thing, except for everything else.
He is first and foremost agaisnt what capitalism has morphed into, and secondly trying to look for what works best in all systems and incorporate them into one.
The man wears no rose colored glasses and readily admits and accepts that complete fairness and total equality from an economic standpoint is running a fools erand.

 

[TGregg]

. . .most people who do hard-hitting across-the-board criticism of our present variety of capitalism are liberals and beyond.

Huh?

I don't know a single conservative that is happy with Helio Benji or all these bailouts. Socializing losses is socialism and it is harmful. Rewarding failure and punishing success is the hallmark of liberalism, not conservativism.

Americans have no intrinsic right to be rich

This is supposed to PO conservatives, I presume. But it doesn't. No one has any more "instrinsic right" to be rich than they do to get free healthcare, 3 squares a day or a new Ferrari every day. Liberals are the ones running around with all these extra rights that must be provided by somebody else, not conservatives.

The very fact that people are whining to Washington to solve our economic problems reveals how important planning is in this country.

I've said as much myself. People want the government to do everything for them. We're screwed `til we get this concept undone.

 

[stopnlimits]

Quote from CaptainObvious:


Complete fairness and total equality from an economic standpoint is running a fools erand.

So true. Historically, the markets have favored the rich and those in positions of power.