I have to pay back my Obamacare subsidy

[piezoe]

why did our insurance go up 400 a month?
why not just subsidize those who can't afford it?
we don't have a balanced budget anyway...
and until we know how much money the Federal Reserve is printing anyway.

there is no moral justification for taking our money via taxes or indirectly through obamacare.

It might even be a violation of the equal protection clause.
as without a balanced budget there is no reasonable justification for taking more money from us.

Medical care in the U.S. is too expensive by, at minimum, a factor of 2, and it isn't very good compared to other countries.

The Fed has told you exactly what they are doing. Every bit of their activities related to how much money they are "printing" is posted on the Web. See ny.frb.org .

Did you read Governor Powells speech that I posted a link to in the Economics forum. If not, you'll find it very informative.

 

[Max E.]

Medical care in the U.S. is too expensive by, at minimum, a factor of 2, and it isn't very good compared to other countries.

There is no doubt that the U.S. is more expensive, but thats bullshit when you say its not very good compared to other countries, What countries are you talking about?

There is one country in the world where all the rich people come if they have a terminal disease and lots of money, and its america, dont kid yourself, America has the best healthcare in the world for those that can pay for it, and i say this as someone whose been witness to both canadian and american healthcare.

I could put up links to a half a dozen rich liberal politicians who were high and mighty on the Canadian system until they got sick, then they went to the states and paid up for proper treatment.

My best friend died of leukemia, and the Canadian government sent him to seattle cause they couldnt treat him, his bone marrow transplant was covered, but he went bankrupt living in an apartment, in quarantine down there after his bone marrow transplant, because they killed his immune system to try to make the transplant take. The operation was covered, but he had to pay 100% out of pocket for a quarantined apartment which bankrupted him.

It was devastating to watch cause he was a warrior, he took all his treatments like a champ and never complained, but then after he was done he came back to nothing, he had no assets and no money, and I suspect he died of a broken heart if anything, he realised he had nothing once he left the hospital. It was very sad to see his spirit broken after he never complained once while he was going through treatment. The guy was the epitome of a man, and someone i still look up to very much as an example of someone who died with dignity, I can only hope when my time comes i can be 1/10th the man he was.

There is no place in the world youd rather be if you are sick than America if you can afford to pay, or you are insured.

 

[piezoe]

There is no doubt that the U.S. is more expensive, but thats bullshit when you say its not very good compared to other countries, What countries are you talking about?

There is one country in the world where all the rich people come if they have a terminal disease and lots of money, and its america, dont kid yourself, America has the best healthcare in the world for those that can pay for it, and i say this as someone whose been witness to both canadian and american healthcare.

I could put up links to a half a dozen rich liberal politicians who were high and mighty on the Canadian system until they got sick, then they went to the states and paid up for proper treatment.

My best friend died of leukemia, and the Canadian government sent him to seattle cause they couldnt treat him, his bone marrow transplant was covered, but he went bankrupt living in an apartment, in quarantine down there after his bone marrow transplant, because they killed his immune system to try to make the transplant take. The operation was covered, but he had to pay 100% out of pocket for a quarantined apartment which bankrupted him.

It was devastating to watch cause he was a warrior, he took all his treatments like a champ and never complained, but then after he was done he came back to nothing, he had no assets and no money, and I suspect he died of a broken heart if anything, he realised he had nothing once he left the hospital. It was very sad to see his spirit broken after he never complained once while he was going through treatment. The guy was the epitome of a man, and someone i still look up to very much as an example of someone who died with dignity, I can only hope when my time comes i can be 1/10th the man he was.

There is no place in the world youd rather be if you are sick than America if you can afford to pay, or you are insured.

Maxi, You are truly one of my favorite posters on ET, even when I don't agree, which is more often then I would like. I am truly sorry to hear about your friends struggle. Your story, or really his, is more common then either of us would like, he comes to the U.S. for treatment, he dies bankrupt. So sad, so typical. Had he known the U.S. was 36th, or is it 37th, in the standard rankings of the quality of medical care, he might have chosen to stay in Canada and die a more peaceful, dignified, financially solvent death. I have no figures since O'Romney care was instituted, but I would think it is a safe guess that Medical Bills are still the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the land of the brave, home of the free. Yes, it wasn't his operation that bankrupted him, but that's to the Credit of the Canadian National Health System, not the murderous U.S. Medical Cartel.

If you are the adolescent son of a famous surgeon, or have unlimited financial resources, and can fly to Rochester, Houston, L.A., Boston, or any of our great medical teaching hospitals you may possibly avail yourself of medical treatment equivalent to the some of the best in the world. Otherwise it is a crap shoot with 50/50 odds. We should not judge American medicine on the outcome of anecdotal stories, but rather by the serious studies of cost and medical outcome carried out be disinterested parties. Sorry to say, we don't look very good.

 

[Max E.]

Thx for the compliment, and i think the same way, I enjoy talking to you about most subjects becuse you actually put alot of thought behind your posts (even if its the wrong thought in my opinion ) as opposed to most idealogues.

I know that you most likely dont mean it this way, but you are insulting his intelligence, HIS ONLY OPTION FOR TREATMENT WAS THE U.S. There was no one in canada. The Canadian government sent him to the U.S. cause they couldnt do it. Our healthcare system in the U.S. is only ranked 37th because we dont have universal care, its a fact that people with money go here for treatment, that number is disingenous.

You want another story? My uncle in Canada recently needed a knee transplant, and the government of Canada deemed it unecessary surgery even though he was an electrician who couldnt work without being able to walk, bottom line is there is lots of horror stories with government run healthcare, infact, having been on both sides id say there is more. Your chances of getting treated in Canada is based on your future tax paying ability, good luck if you are over 50 trying to get operations like a replacement knee when the government deems you unnecessary. Good luck getting an MRI in Canada, the waiting list if you arent deemed necessary is a year, in the U.S. with insurance I can get one by the end of the week.

Maxi, You are truly one of my favorite posters on ET, even when I don't agree, which is more often then I would like. I am truly sorry to hear about your friends struggle. Your story, or really his, is more common then either of us would like, he comes to the U.S. for treatment, he dies bankrupt. So sad, so typical. Had he known the U.S. was 36th, or is it 37th, in the standard rankings of the quality of medical care, he might have chosen to stay in Canada and die a more peaceful dignified death and avoid bankruptcy. I have no figures since O'Romney care was instituted, but I would think it is a safe guess that Medical Bills are still the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the land of the brave, home of the free.

 

[jem]

I think our country should know everything they are printing and what they are buying with it.

We see partial info disclosure of what they wish to disclose but we have no idea if it is everything.

Remember when they loaned out 9-11 trillion dollars around the world during the mortgage crises... we did not find out about it for a few years... At the time they were giving out 9 trillion we had Paulson and Bush lobbying Congress for a relatively puny 850 billion or whatever the amount was.

We had no idea they were creating that money at the time.

So no... not even close to everything is on the ny fed website.
We don't even know who the owners of Fed Shares are.
We don't know if they self deal to friends...
We also see that below they are accused of using their money creation power to influence congress.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/10/sen-rand-paul-audit-the-fed/
Some say the Fed is already audited.

Well, when the auditor came to Congress, she was asked the identity of the debt bought by the Fed. She didn’t know.

When pressed on the case she responded, “We do not have the jurisdiction to directly go and audit reserve bank activities.”

Some worry about Fed independence.

I do too. I worry about the Fed’s independence from the Executive branch. The Fed is supposed to be overseen by Congress. Congress created the Fed. The Fed is now in every nook and cranny of banking regulation since Dodd-Frank and it is a necessity that we not let the Executive branch gain unlimited power.

With Dodd-Frank, we created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, an agency with unprecedented regulatory powers and no Congressional oversight.

Any audit of the Fed should attempt to bring regulatory power back under the control of Congress.

Some worry that an audit would reveal which banks are shaky and lead to a panic.

The audit doesn’t occur until a year after the bill passes. When the 2011 audit occurred, no bank-runs ensued.

It is alarming that the Federal Reserve, which was granted Monopoly money-making power, is now specifically trying to stop my legislation. The Fed, with unlimited ability to print money, now prints that money to lobby against Congressional oversight. It is a disgrace and every citizen in the land should rise up and say: We the people are in charge and we demand an audit!

Peter Bernholz writes that public deficits have frequently been the reason for hyperinflations. The fight is twofold.

Audit the Fed is about transparency, but the fight is also about restoring fiscal sanity to our nation’s checkbook.

Medical care in the U.S. is too expensive by, at minimum, a factor of 2, and it isn't very good compared to other countries.

The Fed has told you exactly what they are doing. Every bit of their activities related to how much money they are "printing" is posted on the Web. See ny.frb.org .

Did you read Governor Powells speech that I posted a link to in the Economics forum. If not, you'll find it very informative.

 

[piezoe]

I think our country should know everything they are printing and what they are buying with it.

We see partial info disclosure of what they wish to disclose but we have no idea if it is everything.

Remember when they loaned out 9-11 trillion dollars around the world during the mortgage crises... we did not find out about it for a few years... At the time they were giving out 9 trillion we had Paulson and Bush lobbying Congress for a relatively puny 850 billion or whatever the amount was.

We had no idea they were creating that money at the time.

So no... not even close to everything is on the ny fed website.
We don't even know who the owners of Fed Shares are.
We don't know if they self deal to friends...
We also see that below they are accused of using their money creation power to influence congress.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/10/sen-rand-paul-audit-the-fed/
Some say the Fed is already audited.

Well, when the auditor came to Congress, she was asked the identity of the debt bought by the Fed. She didn’t know.

When pressed on the case she responded, “We do not have the jurisdiction to directly go and audit reserve bank activities.”

Some worry about Fed independence.

I do too. I worry about the Fed’s independence from the Executive branch. The Fed is supposed to be overseen by Congress. Congress created the Fed. The Fed is now in every nook and cranny of banking regulation since Dodd-Frank and it is a necessity that we not let the Executive branch gain unlimited power.

With Dodd-Frank, we created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, an agency with unprecedented regulatory powers and no Congressional oversight.

Any audit of the Fed should attempt to bring regulatory power back under the control of Congress.

Some worry that an audit would reveal which banks are shaky and lead to a panic.

The audit doesn’t occur until a year after the bill passes. When the 2011 audit occurred, no bank-runs ensued.

It is alarming that the Federal Reserve, which was granted Monopoly money-making power, is now specifically trying to stop my legislation. The Fed, with unlimited ability to print money, now prints that money to lobby against Congressional oversight. It is a disgrace and every citizen in the land should rise up and say: We the people are in charge and we demand an audit!

Peter Bernholz writes that public deficits have frequently been the reason for hyperinflations. The fight is twofold.

Audit the Fed is about transparency, but the fight is also about restoring fiscal sanity to our nation’s checkbook.

Jem, I'm quite serious about this. To the best of my knowledge, which is pretty good when it come to the Fed, I think all Fed purchases and sales are publicly disclosed, usually the same day, and the amount and identity of securities bought or sold are disclosed as well.

 

[piezoe]

Thx for the compliment, and i think the same way, I enjoy talking to you about most subjects becuse you actually put alot of thought behind your posts (even if its the wrong thought in my opinion ) as opposed to most idealogues.

I know that you most likely dont mean it this way, but you are insulting his intelligence, HIS ONLY OPTION FOR TREATMENT WAS THE U.S. There was no one in canada. The Canadian government sent him to the U.S. cause they couldnt do it. Our healthcare system in the U.S. is only ranked 37th because we dont have universal care, its a fact that people with money go here for treatment, that number is disingenous.

You want another story? My uncle in Canada recently needed a knee transplant, and the government of Canada deemed it unecessary surgery even though he was an electrician who couldnt work without being able to walk, bottom line is there is lots of horror stories with government run healthcare, infact, having been on both sides id say there is more. Your chances of getting treated in Canada is based on your future tax paying ability, good luck if you are over 50 trying to get operations like a replacement knee when the government deems you unnecessary. Good luck getting an MRI in Canada, the waiting list if you arent deemed necessary is a year, in the U.S. with insurance I can get one by the end of the week.

I would like to know more about the Canadian health system. Probably anecdotes are not the best way to learn about it, but interesting nonetheless.

It's Friday night. Time to enjoy dinner and a glass of wine by the fire. Have a nice evening.

 

[Max E.]

I would like to know more about the Canadian health system. Probably anecdotes are not the best way to learn about it, but interesting nonetheless.

It's Friday night. Time to enjoy dinner and a glass of wine by the fire. Have a nice evening.

LOL, same plans, going to go sit in my hot tub, with a glass of scotch and a stogie, and watch a movie while this blizzard keeps pounding us, have a good weekend!

 

[Max E.]

Here is one of the more famous cases in canada, Belinda Stronach, a rich liberal whose constantly talking up the canadian healthcare system went to the states to get treatment when she came down with cancer. Bottom line is when your life is on the line you want the best treatment and that is not available in Canada, so people with money end up going to the U.S.

These arent just anecdotes, they are reality, you dont ever hear any stories of rich people from the u.s. coming to canada for treatment, but you hear tons of stories of people going the other way.





Stronach travels to U.S. for cancer treatment
Belinda Stronach went to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year.

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ASHLEY HUTCHESON / TORONTO STAR Order this photo

Belinda Stronach, with members of the African Children’s Choir, arrives Sunday at the One X One gala at the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts. One X One Foundation benefits domestic and global children’s charities.

By: Susan Delacourt Ottawa Bureau, Published on Fri Sep 14 2007
OTTAWA–Belinda Stronach, the MP for Newmarket-Aurora and former cabinet minister, travelled outside Canada's health-care system to California for some of her breast cancer treatment earlier this year.

Stronach, diagnosed in the spring with a type of breast cancer that required a mastectomy and breast reconstruction, went to California in June at her Toronto doctor's suggestion, a spokesperson confirmed.

"Belinda had one of her later-stage operations in California, after referral from her personal physicians in Toronto. Prior to this, Belinda had surgery and treatment in Toronto, and continues to receive follow-up treatment there," said Greg MacEachern, Stronach's assistant and spokesperson.

Speed was not the issue, MacEachern said – it was more to do with the type of surgery she and her doctor agreed was best for her, and where it was best performed. The type of cancer Stronach had is called DCIS, ductal carcinoma in situ, one of the more treatable forms.

Stronach, who has announced she is leaving politics to return to executive duties at her father's Magna empire, paid for the procedure.

"As we said back in June when we confirmed the surgery, this is a personal and private matter between Belinda, her family and her physicians. I think you'll understand that because of respect for Belinda's privacy, we refrained from offering specific details around her medical treatment," MacEachern said.

It is unusual for a federal politician to travel outside Canada for private medical treatment, especially given the hallowed status of the Canadian, publicly financed health-care system in the realm of political debate.

MacEachern stressed that Stronach's decision had nothing to do with her confidence – or lack of it – in Canada's cancer-treatment facilities or public health care.

He pointed out that there is a cancer-care facility in Newmarket named after the Stronach family, after Frank Stronach donated $8 million toward its construction in 2004.

"In fact, Belinda thinks very highly of the Canadian health-care system, and uses it when needed for herself and her children, as do all Canadians. As well, her family has clearly demonstrated that support," MacEachern said.

"This was about a specific health-care procedure, unrelated to any views about the quality of Canadian health care, a decision based on medical advice and a referral from her Toronto physicians, and just one part of several areas of treatment. Belinda has nothing but praise for the community of health-care professionals in Toronto who supported and treated her throughout the last six months."

MacEachern did not want to answer questions in detail about the type of surgery, what she paid for it or where exactly it was performed in California.

He did say, however, that Stronach underwent the operation in June, roughly around the time she would have had the procedure had she remained in Canada.

The Canadian Cancer Society also says it is impossible to determine how many citizens of this country travel each year to the United States for private cancer treatment, since records are only kept if they apply in some way for compensation.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2007/09/14/stronach_travels_to_us_for_cancer_treatment.html

 

[piezoe]

I think our country should know everything they are printing and what they are buying with it.

We see partial info disclosure of what they wish to disclose but we have no idea if it is everything.

Remember when they loaned out 9-11 trillion dollars around the world during the mortgage crises... we did not find out about it for a few years... At the time they were giving out 9 trillion we had Paulson and Bush lobbying Congress for a relatively puny 850 billion or whatever the amount was.

We had no idea they were creating that money at the time.

So no... not even close to everything is on the ny fed website.
We don't even know who the owners of Fed Shares are.
We don't know if they self deal to friends...
We also see that below they are accused of using their money creation power to influence congress.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/10/sen-rand-paul-audit-the-fed/
Some say the Fed is already audited.

Well, when the auditor came to Congress, she was asked the identity of the debt bought by the Fed. She didn’t know.

When pressed on the case she responded, “We do not have the jurisdiction to directly go and audit reserve bank activities.”

Some worry about Fed independence.

I do too. I worry about the Fed’s independence from the Executive branch. The Fed is supposed to be overseen by Congress. Congress created the Fed. The Fed is now in every nook and cranny of banking regulation since Dodd-Frank and it is a necessity that we not let the Executive branch gain unlimited power.

With Dodd-Frank, we created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, an agency with unprecedented regulatory powers and no Congressional oversight.

Any audit of the Fed should attempt to bring regulatory power back under the control of Congress.

Some worry that an audit would reveal which banks are shaky and lead to a panic.

The audit doesn’t occur until a year after the bill passes. When the 2011 audit occurred, no bank-runs ensued.

It is alarming that the Federal Reserve, which was granted Monopoly money-making power, is now specifically trying to stop my legislation. The Fed, with unlimited ability to print money, now prints that money to lobby against Congressional oversight. It is a disgrace and every citizen in the land should rise up and say: We the people are in charge and we demand an audit!

Peter Bernholz writes that public deficits have frequently been the reason for hyperinflations. The fight is twofold.

Audit the Fed is about transparency, but the fight is also about restoring fiscal sanity to our nation’s checkbook.

Jem you are way to bright to swallow that political pandering by Rand Paul. It's disgusting, and it has caused me to lose the respect I had for him. You're being entertained and influenced by Rand Paul's hearsay report of what a witness actually said, and we don't know the circumstances and context, who she was, or even what agency she was working for. You're an attorney and you know what they teach you in law school about cross examination!

No financial auditor has the authority to go and directly audit Fed activities. Well, what does activities mean in this context? When that, frightened I presume, auditor said "We don't have authority to audit Fed activites", we have no idea from Paul's account what is being meant by activities. We are missing the context. We don't have the entire inquiry that preceded her answer. Now what does that Weasel Paul want us to think when we read his account? That's right, he wants us to think, "Oh, my goodness, the Fed isn't audited!"

The reality is that every single buy or sell transaction, domestic and foreign, is immediately disclosed by the Fed (Primarily on the NY Branch Bank's site). This identifies the specific security bought or sold and the amount. This includes foreign bank transactions, swaps etc. It is probable that the Fed is more open and transparent than any other federal agency. They are subject to Federal Sunshine laws.

The Fed has their own independent inspector general, and they are independently audited. The GAO also audits them. It seems Paul's Bill is about politics, not about a financial audit. Some have described it as being about a "policy audit". I haven't read it. Have you?

The last thing in the world that I personally would want is for Congress to have veto power over Fed monetary policy, or be able to interfere with implementation. Congress does oversee the Fed, but Fed governors are protected by law from dismissal over policy opinion. That is best in my opinion. Even though Greenspan wouldn't alter the margin rate during the tech bubble to cool down speculation, as I thought he should. I still would not have wanted Congress to have the power to override his decisions. Congress created the Fed and they can get rid of it or second guess all they want, but I sure don't want them interfering with Fed day to day operations or policy decisions.

Paul is engaged in an activity I abhor. He is misleading his constituents to garner votes. I wish he had the integrity of his Dad, but he doesn't. It's sad.

And I agree with you. We don't want Executive branch interference with the Fed either. That really scares me.