I have a dream.

Originally posted by trader99
Stockbroker:
So, let's do some calculations here. There are roughly 250 trading days in a year. $1M/250days = $4000/day NET! Which is quite possible with enough effort. But I think it's misleading. Because NO ONE can have that kind of consistency of pulling $4K out of the market every single freakin day. The more likely scenario/statistics is that they have really BIG winning days like $10-$15K and a few losing days hopefully keeping it small like under $1K. And maybe on average make $1-$2K. And somehow it all adds up to $1M. That's the more likely distribution of winnings.
More...

First off on this, your math looks fine, but I'm afraid I can't agree with your conclusion, "NO ONE can [... pull ...] $4K out of the market every single freakin day", and have to agree with most of Uptik's comments.

I've been thinking abotu it for the equity market. In order to make that kind of money, you GOTTA hold onto your winners and ride out the big move. I've not known a million dollars equity scalpers YET.. Perhaps, the only exception is the market-maket/specialist who has tens of millions at their disposal.
More...

Letting winners run is very important. If not, you'll miss the big moves, more often than not. Keep improving your skills, and when you feel confident, then start looking for some professional leverage. I think you have to keep your mind open to other possibilities. There are also many types of trading besides daytrading equities. There are other strategies, such as swing-trading, pairs trading, stat arb, risk arb, etc.. There are other products, such as options, futures, bonds, converts, spreadbets, etc..

Now I am not an expert by any stretch. But I've spent a lot of time around some who are, by all accounts, very good and experienced traders, each of whom has traded their way to millions and millions. The one thing they all have in common is that they were always checking into other ways they could do things, learning about new strategies and products, asking people questions. WhatI am saying is to keep your options open, and learn all you can -- oh, and don't be afraid to try something new.
 
pretty much right on the money, the q's print 500k blocks left and right, moving 100k of that should not be that big of a problem, especially if you swing it. problem is like you said, managing that size and getting the buying power to be able to hold such position.
 
You also need a very friendly market environment to do so.

Our firm had at least 12 seven digit performers last year, at least 5 of them broke the 2 million barrier (this doesn't include any significant overnight).

Almost none of them are on track to make one million this year, assuming the January/February stats go in (afterall we are not even in summer time yet).

For example, one of the traders, who made 1.5 million last year, is up "just" 100K this year. At equivalent mark last year, he had 300K in the bank.

You can work your stats anyway you want to, but in the end, to up your size you need to be in a winning streak, and you need a friendly market (or for that matter, a market that cooperate with your strategy) to break out of your stats range, and you hope even when the market inevitably gets worse you still keep the same size because you are already comfortable with it by that point.
 
Originally posted by Hitman
You also need a very friendly market environment to do so.

Our firm had at least 12 seven digit performers last year, at least 5 of them broke the 2 million barrier (this doesn't include any significant overnight).

Almost none of them are on track to make one million this year, assuming the January/February stats go in (afterall we are not even in summer time yet).

For example, one of the traders, who made 1.5 million last year, is up "just" 100K this year. At equivalent mark last year, he had 300K in the bank.

You can work your stats anyway you want to, but in the end, to up your size you need to be in a winning streak, and you need a friendly market (or for that matter, a market that cooperate with your strategy) to break out of your stats range, and you hope even when the market inevitably gets worse you still keep the same size because you are already comfortable with it by that point.
More...

I'm with you on this one. :) You are very right, though, that being in the right place at the right time matters enormously. It's amazing how many people who were in the right place at the right time start thinking themselves geniouses.

The other thing wrt increasing size is to have a good feeling for when to go easy, and when to really load up.
 
It is true that making a million requires a lot effort but it can be done.

I used to think that coming to work and be up everyday is impossible.!!!! But you what the best traders do it all the time. My old mentor is up 20 out of 22 days in a month.

How do you become that consistent? That is a question of displine and a lot of hard work.

You cannot get over zealous or emotional with your stocks, wheather you are up or down.

Definetley don't have a big head. You can always lose everything you made in one day!!!

So a million a year is workable and I am confident I will get there.
 
Wonderduck wrote:

"There are also many types of trading besides daytrading equities. There are other strategies, such as swing-trading, pairs trading, stat arb, risk arb, etc.. There are other products, such as options, futures, bonds, converts, spreadbets, etc.. "

That was my POINT exactly. I'm just saying it's extremely difficult to get to a million a year doing PURE intraday scalping(daytrading) for a nickel here and there.

To make a million swing trading or position trading with large size it's relatively "easy" I would say. Put on a 100,000 shares positions and wait for a week or two for 10-15pts move. IBM went from 126 in Jan to about 93 now. More than enough to make a million on a 100K shares. And one can easily move 100,000 shares in a liquid name like IBM.

But I believe I'm addressing the vast majority of the so called "prop traders" on this board which I think focus mainly on pure intraday plays/scalping if I'm correct.

And of course, if you use other financial instruments with mroe leverage liek optiosn and future the million dolalrs mark come even faster.

But for the sake of our argument in this pure intraday daytrading context, I would think the million dollar/yr mark is NONTRIVIAL to say the least. I'm talking about NET a million. Not gross. After commissions. After ECN fees. After desk fees,etc.

But I think a disciplined daytrader can quite possibly pull in a few hundred dollars/yr if he follows a valid strategy and has enough capital and cut losses and let winners run.

good luck to all of us!

trader99
 
Originally posted by STOCKKBROKER

You cannot get over zealous or emotional with your stocks, wheather you are up or down.
.
More...

In the book "Trading in the Zone" the author states that
euphoria and self-sabotage are two ways a trader can
self-destruct when having a winning streak...
 
The numbers I stated in my post WAS intraday trading, WAS after commissions. Ok, it was before taxes, but everyone else pay taxes :-)

Yes, out of a firm of 750 traders, 12 made it to the promised land, at least for one year, in 2001. That is 1.6% in the second largest day trading firm in this country.

That said, how many people make a milion dollars a year in ANY profession? Not that many :-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top