I got a friend

[guru]

I'm following a few penny stock traders on Twitter. They all trade the same stocks, including some prop firms, so it's not just one guy pumping a stock, but they do this collectively through Twitter, StockTwits, chatrooms, etc. In the end it becomes a modern version of old pump-and-dump schemes that were done years ago via newsletters, emails and bulletin boards. Though nowadays they all teach similar techniques and use similar scanners, look at the same press releases, so they may be pumping the same stocks without talking to each other.

And I also see some of them making big bucks. But here are the issues if you want to invest with someone:
1. If he/she is really good then they don't need you. They can just start their own subscription service.

2. Those top guys have thousands of followers (usually in paid and free chat rooms) where everyone else has mixed results. This means that your friend may be just one of many, and isn't able to break through to the top.

3. Indeed, the current bullish market and the inflow of large numbers of new retail traders is pushing even microcaps (under $5) up more than usual. I have a bot that shorts penny stocks but recently it's also breaking even because the odds for shorting went down. This is temporary, and more often than not, those who go long will start losing quite a lot.

Basically I would not recommend investing with your friend, though I believe that he and others like him can make money for now. He may just not have sufficient edge and consistency.

 

[systematictrader]

I'm following a few penny stock traders on Twitter. They all trade the same stocks, including some prop firms, so it's not just one guy pumping a stock, but they do this collectively through Twitter, StockTwits, chatrooms, etc. In the end it becomes a modern version of old pump-and-dump schemes that were done years ago via newsletters, emails and bulletin boards. Though nowadays they all teach similar techniques and use similar scanners, look at the same press releases, so they may be pumping the same stocks without talking to each other.

And I also see some of them making big bucks. But here are the issues if you want to invest with someone:
1. If he/she is really good then they don't need you. They can just start their own subscription service.

2. Those top guys have thousands of followers (usually in paid and free chat rooms) where everyone else has mixed results. This means that your friend may be just one of many, and isn't able to break through to the top.

3. Indeed, the current bullish market and the inflow of large numbers of new retail traders is pushing even microcaps (under $5) up more than usual. I have a bot that shorts penny stocks but recently it's also breaking even because the odds for shorting went down. This is temporary, and more often than not, those who go long will start losing quite a lot.

Basically I would not recommend investing with your friend, though I believe that he and others like him can make money for now. He may just not have sufficient edge and consistency.

Great info guru
He is been trading few years now not months

he doesnt subscribe ir sell subscriptions to any one he is standard trader from
Home
Like u n me

he is good but again he is giving back most of his profits

once again to everyone he is not making money overall but within the trades he has those large gains very frequently as opposed to large losses which have never been the size of the gains, the large losses always come after the large gains

mind u he is strictly day trader

also most of the time as your bot he is shorting these stocks not long

 

[MichalTr]

Hello @systematictrader

Much ppl here in comments focus on strategy, r/r etc. etc. but there is also another possible problem (much more important than all that stuff) which is your college psychology. Let consider that he is indeed good and capable of making good runs. He may be sabotaging himself. There are many versions of that, there can be someone who earns easily then give it back, there can be someone who can't earn or earns hardly but if it's on loss then "magically" is able to make it back in very robust way. It's complicated topic, ppl do this from a lot reasons, some giving themselves drawdowns because it motivated them to more work and development, some others are not ready to do this seriously. And tons of other reasons. For many ppl here it will be bs, but from my observations all trading success or failure is about mostly hard work, predispositions and psychology. Not about perfect trades, fantastic secret strategies etc. (of course I'm talking about discretionally click trading). But of course it can be also caused by nature of penny stocks markets and reasons given by previous posters.

What you can do is invest with him some small amount just for test, see what happens. You may be surprised, it can turn out that you in fact had some "paper" gains but he gives back also your gains and there will be some rationalization for that (I was in trade, I couldn't close that then, etc.). But if it works good you should again try with small amount (to minimize impact of luck) or even made a lot of that kind of tryouts (if it still goes well).

From your perspective the topic is easy, because you don't need to know why your friend is doing what he is doing (unless you want to help him). You just need to check if you can make money from that if he let you and if you want it.

I wish you luck with your experiment !

 

[systematictrader]

The market we have been trading the last few months is not normal.
So many retail punters locked in their homes and all piling into the same 2-3 hot stocks of the day.
It’s exactly the way things were in the late 90’s.
Enjoy the 100%-400% daily move on whatever small cap biotech mentions “Covid 19” in their press release. This will end in blown accounts and tears just like every other retail mania does.

read again he been trading few years not few months

 

[wrbtrader]

I got a friend relatively new in trading, 3 years, specializes in penny stocks, seems to have a laser focus, account size 25k, never has a single day loss of more than 2k and never more than 2 days in a row, here is the caveat since three months we been talking.

He has a problem of always giving back his gains, i myself witnessed him on at least 20 occasions make 7-15k per day, only to give it back and go back to his normal gains or 1-2k per day or break even, its never the other way around where he loses a lot of his own capital, its always that he gives back his profits

been thinking of investing with him, ride it on the way up, pull out or request he dont trade any more after large gains, both to make me money and help him see what he isn't able to see, or perhaps control

What you think?

Assuming you're talking about a personal friend (not an online friend) and assuming when you said you witnessed him on 20 occasions implies you were physically in the same house with him when he made 7 - 15k per day...

Yet, you know for fact he gives back his gains and you now believe you can exploit your friend via requesting him to bank your profits (you request a withdrawal of the profits) prior to him losing the profits...

Ridiculous because if you had to ability to watch him in person on 20 occasions...just watch what he's doing / learn considering you're right there in the exact same trading environment.

Also, its a dangerous game to play with using your friend that way because the friendship won't last much longer when he realizes what you've been doing (destroying his confidence) while you gain financially from it with your illusion it will be a learning experience for him.

Yet, if you're only talking about some casual friend with no meaningful connection...go for it but realize you will not be perfect in removing your profits when he gives back more than just his gains or much worst.

People do crazy things to each other when money is lost.

wrbtrader

 

[systematictrader]

Hello @systematictrader

Much ppl here in comments focus on strategy, r/r etc. etc. but there is also another possible problem (much more important than all that stuff) which is your college psychology. Let consider that he is indeed good and capable of making good runs. He may be sabotaging himself. There are many versions of that, there can be someone who earns easily then give it back, there can be someone who can't earn or earns hardly but if it's on loss then "magically" is able to make it back in very robust way. It's complicated topic, ppl do this from a lot reasons, some giving themselves drawdowns because it motivated them to more work and development, some others are not ready to do this seriously. And tons of other reasons. For many ppl here it will be bs, but from my observations all trading success or failure is about mostly hard work, predispositions and psychology. Not about perfect trades, fantastic secret strategies etc. (of course I'm talking about discretionally click trading). But of course it can be also caused by nature of penny stocks markets and reasons given by previous posters.

What you can do is invest with him some small amount just for test, see what happens. You may be surprised, it can turn out that you in fact had some "paper" gains but he gives back also your gains and there will be some rationalization for that (I was in trade, I couldn't close that then, etc.). But if it works good you should again try with small amount (to minimize impact of luck) or even made a lot of that kind of tryouts.

From your perspective the topic is easy, because you don't need why your friend is doing what he is doing (unless you want to help him). You just need to check if you can make money from that if he let you and if you want it.

I wish you luck with your experiment !

Precisely what iam thinking that his hindrance is psychological which as you stated most people underestimate, he gives it back because he thinks its free money since its “market money”

and precisely on point i personally never managed to make large gains then losses or large gains and no losses yet i always managed to lose large and regain them, then make small
Profits,

on the part where he would give my gains back, how would he do that ? Remember my plan is to have him cease trading in my account after the large gain, which again he closes but then goes on to trade more and loses the gains in the following trades

does that make sense?
Its not that his gains are unrealized and he gives it back its that he makes the gains, closes the trade, but then the loss is given back in a completely different trade

 

[systematictrader]

Assuming you're talking about a personal friend (not an online friend) and assuming when you said you witnessed him on 20 occasions implies you were physically in the same house with him when he made 7 - 15k per day...

Yet, you know for fact he gives back his gains and you now believe you can exploit your friend via requesting him to bank your profits (you request a withdrawal of the profits) prior to him losing the profits...

Ridiculous because if you had to ability to watch him in person on 20 occasions...just watch what he's doing / learn considering you're right there in the exact same trading environment.

Also, its a dangerous game to play with using your friend that way because the friendship won't last much longer when he realizes what you've been doing (destroying his confidence) while you gain financially from it with your illusion it will be a learning experience for him.

Yet, if you're only talking about some casual friend with no meaningful connection...go for it but realize you will not be perfect in removing your profits when he gives back more than just his gains or much worst.

People do crazy things to each other when money is lost.

wrbtrader

Your misunderstanding few things, first of all i wouldnt do what he does which is day trading no matter what money is on the line or to be made, i dont have the energy to “clock in” and “clock out”
Daily neither the desire to do so

 

[systematictrader]

Assuming you're talking about a personal friend (not an online friend) and assuming when you said you witnessed him on 20 occasions implies you were physically in the same house with him when he made 7 - 15k per day...

Yet, you know for fact he gives back his gains and you now believe you can exploit your friend via requesting him to bank your profits (you request a withdrawal of the profits) prior to him losing the profits...

Ridiculous because if you had to ability to watch him in person on 20 occasions...just watch what he's doing / learn considering you're right there in the exact same trading environment.

Also, its a dangerous game to play with using your friend that way because the friendship won't last much longer when he realizes what you've been doing (destroying his confidence) while you gain financially from it with your illusion it will be a learning experience for him.

Yet, if you're only talking about some casual friend with no meaningful connection...go for it but realize you will not be perfect in removing your profits when he gives back more than just his gains or much worst.

People do crazy things to each other when money is lost.

wrbtrader

Exploit ? why if my account is same size as his and end of month (remember he is day trader) he sees that mine is larger than his off his very own trades, dont u think that will wake him up?

and no wires involved i would simply after thr gains say no more trades on my account, let me elaborate, he trades less than 10 trades a day, typically he is up the most by his 4th-6th trade in which case on my account i would say no more trades, withdrawals deposits are not involved here were just saying when i would not let him
Trade any more for that DAY

 

[systematictrader]

Assuming you're talking about a personal friend (not an online friend) and assuming when you said you witnessed him on 20 occasions implies you were physically in the same house with him when he made 7 - 15k per day...

Yet, you know for fact he gives back his gains and you now believe you can exploit your friend via requesting him to bank your profits (you request a withdrawal of the profits) prior to him losing the profits...

Ridiculous because if you had to ability to watch him in person on 20 occasions...just watch what he's doing / learn considering you're right there in the exact same trading environment.

Also, its a dangerous game to play with using your friend that way because the friendship won't last much longer when he realizes what you've been doing (destroying his confidence) while you gain financially from it with your illusion it will be a learning experience for him.

Yet, if you're only talking about some casual friend with no meaningful connection...go for it but realize you will not be perfect in removing your profits when he gives back more than just his gains or much worst.

People do crazy things to each other when money is lost.

wrbtrader

dangerous game
See post above

removing profits
Sure most likely i will get out earlier as there is some days i assume i will het out at 5k profit while he runs it larger whether he gives it back or not doesnt matter if i “ceased”the trades on my account

 

[systematictrader]

Assuming you're talking about a personal friend (not an online friend) and assuming when you said you witnessed him on 20 occasions implies you were physically in the same house with him when he made 7 - 15k per day...

Yet, you know for fact he gives back his gains and you now believe you can exploit your friend via requesting him to bank your profits (you request a withdrawal of the profits) prior to him losing the profits...

Ridiculous because if you had to ability to watch him in person on 20 occasions...just watch what he's doing / learn considering you're right there in the exact same trading environment.

Also, its a dangerous game to play with using your friend that way because the friendship won't last much longer when he realizes what you've been doing (destroying his confidence) while you gain financially from it with your illusion it will be a learning experience for him.

Yet, if you're only talking about some casual friend with no meaningful connection...go for it but realize you will not be perfect in removing your profits when he gives back more than just his gains or much worst.

People do crazy things to each other when money is lost.

wrbtrader

And yes ive been with him in times physically and in times over the phone the entire time watching those trades live, not because of him, but because few days i stay on my
Computer during market hours since iam a swing trader thats a rarity that i sit the while market session, meanwhile he does, and we always speak, thus those 20 days weren't days “scheduled” they just happens to be days i was up and on the pc the whole
Time

the days we iam not there the whole
Time we speak over the phone usually typical traders talking and he seems to have identical days whether iam
There or not and beats himself about it to me over the phone as i do over my
Fucks ups gains trades etc etc etc etc