I feel the entry is also critical

Quote from Trend Fader:




Nice spin. Let me put it in a different perspective.. I have yet to read a consistently profitable day trading journal anywhere ...

When daytrading stocks.. systems can not be tested because of liquidity concerns and noise movement. The only intraday system that can really be tested are the ones based on futures...

Many people on ET trade futures... they try to scalp a few points here and there... some hold longer than others... In reality the longer you can hold onto the trade and ride the winner the better you will be off.. This lack of ability causes you to have a tremendously low % of killer winners.. which is what you need to succeed. Daytraders are flat into the close.. and huge rallies intraday are difficult to catch.. they are fast and furious... and the big drops are difficult to short because of uptick rule..

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:confused: by way of example, may i suggest you reading tony oz's books as journals of succesful day trading OR speak to nitro, a very succesful day trader on this board.

systems cannot be tested when daytrading stocks ?? this is absolutely not accurate.

big drops are difficult to short due to the uptick rule ?? PLEASE !! day traders use bullets to short stocks regardless of uptick rule.

:confused: :confused:
 
Quote from marketsurfer:




:confused: by way of example, may i suggest you reading tony oz's books as journals of succesful day trading OR speak to nitro, a very succesful day trader on this board.

systems cannot be tested when daytrading stocks ?? this is absolutely not accurate.

big drops are difficult to short due to the uptick rule ?? PLEASE !! day traders use bullets to short stocks regardless of uptick rule.

:confused: :confused:
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I would like to see Tony Oz's daytrading journal post nasdaq bubble...

Slippage is really unpredictable intraday.. maybe you can get away with it.. if you trade really big caps... but it can make a big difference when doing testing...

I am not saying that there arent any daytraders making $.. I am saying that the daytrading game has the least probability of success over any other type of trading..

--MIKE
 
As I said, slippage is not an issue if you enter with a stop-limit. And there is no uptick rule with futures.

As for intraday trends being more difficult to trade than extraday trends, I suppose that depends on the trader.

--Db
 
Quote from Trend Fader:




Yea.. here is an idea.. why dont you do a random system on the QQQ, SPY, DIA daily bars not intraday bars.. I bet your results will be different. Van Tharp's random system was based on daily bars...

Anything testing intraday.. whether random or not... is very difficult... Intraday is prone to a lot of noise.. especially at the middle of the day...

If you were convinced on testing eminis.. then test from 9:30-11 and 2-4pm..


--MIKE
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Mike,

I could try it with SPY daily bars since I have that data available.
When I get some more time.

It shouldn't take too long.

Thanks
 
Quote from dbphoenix:

As I said, slippage is not an issue if you enter with a stop-limit. And there is no uptick rule with futures.

--Db
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Slippage is an issue with testing stocks... because you are working with a small risk to reward to begin with...

I agree and stated earlier it is possible to successfully test a intraday futures strategy... slippage and liquidity is a non issue.

The problem is limited time for big gains because you have to be out at the close.. trends are usually short lived... and huge trend days are very rare.. you have to contend with a lot of market noise..

--MIKE
 
Quote from Trend Fader:



I trade trends too... intraday trends are more difficult to trade then daily bar trends...

For one thing... daily bar trends... last much longer... like a recent example EBAY, GRMN...
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daily bar trends last much longer ..... DUDE ! think about what you just said.

best,

surfer:D
 
Quote from Kernol:

What would results look like if you switched your target and stop amounts in one of your horrible strategies?

Profitable scalping or beaten up by market orders?
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Kernol,

actually i tried it about 20 different ways. wide stops, tight stops,
target equal to stop, target 2 times stop, target = 1/2 stop, trailing stops, trailing stops after it turned profitable by x amount, varying sizes of trailing stops, etc. etc.

so i am not sure what you are suggesting. it lost every way
i tried it.

thanks,
 
Quote from marketsurfer:




daily bar trends last much longer ..... DUDE ! think about what you just said.

best,

surfer:D
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You are missing my point.. I am talking about comparing bar to bar..

Count the amount of bars in an trend on a 5 min chart.. and count the bars on a daily chart...

The bar trend lasts much longer on daily charts...



--MIKE
 
Quote from Trend Fader:

The problem is limited time for big gains because you have to be out at the close.. trends are usually short lived... and huge trend days are very rare.. you have to contend with a lot of market noise..

--MIKE
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The "problem" has to do with leverage and management, not with time.

As for "noise", someone who focuses on monthly and weekly charts would consider daily charts to be "noise".

The only difference between daytrading and swing trading is that one relinquishes control when swing trading.

--Db
 
Quote from dbphoenix:



The "problem" has to do with leverage and management, not with time.

As for "noise", someone who focuses on monthly and weekly charts would consider daily charts to be "noise".

The only difference between daytrading and swing trading is that one relinquishes control when swing trading.

--Db
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well said, db.

best,

surfer
 
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