I got into trading for the money AND to see the possiblities I can achieve AND to know more about myself.
Know the reason why they say 'never walk under a ladder, it's bad luck'? That's b/c a ladder's only got 2 legs.
I feel like giving up!
- Thread starter Unquestionably
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I got into trading for the money AND to see the possiblities I can achieve AND to know more about myself.
Know the reason why they say 'never walk under a ladder, it's bad luck'? That's b/c a ladder's only got 2 legs.
Exactly. That is the reason why Jesse Livermore and Nicolas Darvas ultimately went broke trading (karma). And that is the reason why no man has ever/will ever beat the market (karma). And that is the reason why money that is made in Wall Street will remain in Wall Street (karma).
Money that is made unethically (ie. adds no value) will eventually find its way back to the source from whence it came. That's just how the universe operates.
Trading is a business - and just like any other business, if you don't have a workable plan, the money to invest in your business and the talent to bring it off, you're going to fail. As to adding value, traders who have confidence in a particular stock or sector add value by aggressively buying.
If no one consistently made money trading, they would all throw up their hands, as the original poster did, and quit.
The tools are there - a person just needs the skill, persistence and imagination to come up with a viable plan. It's no different than being in a research lab - for every 100 experiments, 99 fail. But the person who quits, never gets to the 100th experiment which is a success. I've been at it for a number of years - ups and down - losing money, making a little. Eventually the plan came together, consistency kicked in and I now I do the same thing every day. I would say though that I probably would have quit in absolute frustration if I hadn't had the advantage of struggling through a hard science Ph.D. and subsequent lab experience. Just like traders, believing in your thesis is not enough. It's proving or disproving that thesis that counts.
Plan the trade and trade the plan.
If no one consistently made money trading, they would all throw up their hands, as the original poster did, and quit.
The tools are there - a person just needs the skill, persistence and imagination to come up with a viable plan. It's no different than being in a research lab - for every 100 experiments, 99 fail. But the person who quits, never gets to the 100th experiment which is a success. I've been at it for a number of years - ups and down - losing money, making a little. Eventually the plan came together, consistency kicked in and I now I do the same thing every day. I would say though that I probably would have quit in absolute frustration if I hadn't had the advantage of struggling through a hard science Ph.D. and subsequent lab experience. Just like traders, believing in your thesis is not enough. It's proving or disproving that thesis that counts.
Plan the trade and trade the plan.
Sorry I don't buy the karma argument. I want to provide an example.
Let's say I predict the market will go down (and it is going to go down). If I do nothing then I have no effect on anything. However, if I short then perhaps I'll move the market a minuscule amount.
Grandma wants to buy shares. She has no clue or care if the market is going up or down. Now that I've shorted the market, she comes in to buy she will get a better price -- even though she will lose paper profits on her position (hopefully). She is getting a better price had I not shorted.
I've benefited the market and made it more efficient and gave Grandma a better price. Grandma may hold for a year or two or maybe a month.. at the end of the day she benefited.
In terms of Karma.. I feel that by having a talent I am mandated to take advantage of it and serve my talents, develop them, etc.
Most people don't think about how hard it is to do anything which is because people only do what they already learned. It is nigh impossible to do ANYTHING at all folks.
I am thus mandated to do as much as possible. I am mandated to serve.
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The market is not really zero sum either. It is a many-summed game. It is negative sum for very short-term trades because they must overcome the spread, commission, and slippage. But it is only negative summed assuming one entered at the same time and exit at the same time. You never know when the other side is going to sell/buy but it is unlikely to be at the exact same times.
However, for most people the market is random and obviously playing a random game that has a cost too it is not going to work well.
Okay, what if I do bust a trader this too is still serving because this trader who couldn't profit can now go on to start a business and serve better -- perhaps he will form a new product or invention that will make the world. This is what capitalism says anyway.
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On a business, I want to say you've no clue what you are talking about either. Almost everyone who started a business that I've known failed. I did software consulting for years and developed shareware. I had many dark days and anyone who starts a business will have dark days. It ended up being worth it but I never sold enough to make it worth it-- however i made contacts and made business in other ways. It wasn't worth it on paper.
You also run into the same problems as in the market. I sold stuff on ebay for a time. I made money but often I ran out of product because I couldn't source enough of it cheaply enough to sale. That's not so different then liquidity problems you mention.
In fact, you start a business you are still trying to beat the market. You are saying I can run my business and return more then the market.
Let's say I predict the market will go down (and it is going to go down). If I do nothing then I have no effect on anything. However, if I short then perhaps I'll move the market a minuscule amount.
Grandma wants to buy shares. She has no clue or care if the market is going up or down. Now that I've shorted the market, she comes in to buy she will get a better price -- even though she will lose paper profits on her position (hopefully). She is getting a better price had I not shorted.
I've benefited the market and made it more efficient and gave Grandma a better price. Grandma may hold for a year or two or maybe a month.. at the end of the day she benefited.
In terms of Karma.. I feel that by having a talent I am mandated to take advantage of it and serve my talents, develop them, etc.
Most people don't think about how hard it is to do anything which is because people only do what they already learned. It is nigh impossible to do ANYTHING at all folks.
I am thus mandated to do as much as possible. I am mandated to serve.
----
The market is not really zero sum either. It is a many-summed game. It is negative sum for very short-term trades because they must overcome the spread, commission, and slippage. But it is only negative summed assuming one entered at the same time and exit at the same time. You never know when the other side is going to sell/buy but it is unlikely to be at the exact same times.
However, for most people the market is random and obviously playing a random game that has a cost too it is not going to work well.
Okay, what if I do bust a trader this too is still serving because this trader who couldn't profit can now go on to start a business and serve better -- perhaps he will form a new product or invention that will make the world. This is what capitalism says anyway.
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On a business, I want to say you've no clue what you are talking about either. Almost everyone who started a business that I've known failed. I did software consulting for years and developed shareware. I had many dark days and anyone who starts a business will have dark days. It ended up being worth it but I never sold enough to make it worth it-- however i made contacts and made business in other ways. It wasn't worth it on paper.
You also run into the same problems as in the market. I sold stuff on ebay for a time. I made money but often I ran out of product because I couldn't source enough of it cheaply enough to sale. That's not so different then liquidity problems you mention.
In fact, you start a business you are still trying to beat the market. You are saying I can run my business and return more then the market.
If you think trading is tough, then do not start a business. You're still (trading) but in an entirely different manner. You are trading your services for a fee. It's physically, financially and emotionally draining. Where as in financial markets it's just financially and emotionally draining if you don't have an edge.
Who's to say that the money that is made on the markets can only go back into the markets? (karma) What is keeping you from donating your winnings to a less fortunate person around your area? Or going to the grocery store to buy pet food to feed the shelter-less animals roaming the city? Or sending the winnings to an organization that you deemed has worthy causes that improves society?
But if you want to give up, there is no shame in that. It's just numbers moving higher and lower; that's it. Some people like it, some don't.
Who's to say that the money that is made on the markets can only go back into the markets? (karma) What is keeping you from donating your winnings to a less fortunate person around your area? Or going to the grocery store to buy pet food to feed the shelter-less animals roaming the city? Or sending the winnings to an organization that you deemed has worthy causes that improves society?
But if you want to give up, there is no shame in that. It's just numbers moving higher and lower; that's it. Some people like it, some don't.
Ridiculoso. You're in the bizarro world. Hat tip to Seinfeld.
Acting as if the word 'unethical' is synonymous with 'adding no value' is even more hilarious.
You are truly delusional and should get out of trading immediately. Truth is you are not very good at it, and like a veteran minor league pitcher who never gets the major league call you should give it up and try something else. But the fact you are unsuccessful doesn't mean there aren't pitchers in the majors making 10 mill a year.
Oh I know, you can turn jealous and decree that baseball is a game and these guys shouldn't make 10 million. Or you could simply accept they are much better pitchers then you and maybe you just never had the arm to succeed in the first place.
the market is zero-sum for traders. The market is not zero-sum for stockholders.