I don't want to HODL but I like crypto

[2rosy]

https://consensys.net/blog/blockchain-explained/what-is-a-dao-and-how-do-they-work/
you can create your own DAO enforceable through smart contracts. Solana and solidity are options. Opportunities are endless

 

[Sprout]

Incorrect. What OP was asking for was accepting crypto for a real business. In the same way that nobody could explain in simple terms how DAO can enforce contracts nobody here can explain in simple terms how to integrate a crypto payments processor and all its implications in the real world in a real business. It appears more and more to me that there is a bunch of dreamers sitting around who just can't explain to anyone on the outside how things integrate and work in real life most likely because they don't know themselves. The concepts all sound great but there is simply no proof of concept in existence. Hacky is the best term I can find that describes this. Dreaming is not bad and we need dreamers but pretending that the concepts and ideas are mature enough to make it into any real world business applications is pretentious and unproven. In the entire history of human kind the concept "if you can't explain a complex concept in simple terms then you probably have not understood it yourself" has held true.

It's funny to see someone proclaiming that others are idiots. This is especially true if you have no expertise in the domain that you are criticizing. How about starting at the basics of how functioning DeFi protocols actually work?

 

[Mazedonia]

The article explains the concept really well and I understand the concept but it does not (as all others) explain how any of the rules in the contract are enforced. It's easy to enforce the shared investment in NFT by ownership tokens, invested. But it's impossible to enforce most every other more complex contract and its rules. One very wrong assumption made with DAO is that the motivations and interests of all participants are aligned. They are totally not. If I can get rich from all others in the network working hard but I don't need to work hard then why should I work hard to start with. I could just be a freeloader. If I am good at disguising that then nobody finds out. Perhaps we get to an automated progress measure algorithm but I guess you get the point, my example was an extremely simplified one. Most problems are way more complex and contract rules and especially the enforcement of those by non humans is virtually impossible, at least as of now.

https://consensys.net/blog/blockchain-explained/what-is-a-dao-and-how-do-they-work/
you can create your own DAO enforceable through smart contracts. Solana and solidity are options. Opportunities are endless

 

[Mazedonia]

You must be confusing me with the other guy. Not once did I attack anyone personally, never called anyone names, never proclaimed names towards anyone personally. The opposite: he started calling everyone an idiot who did not swallow his poorly explained and at times completely missing the point gospel.

The problem is that those claiming domain expertise upon respectful asking refused or simply are incapable of explaining in simple terms how something works they claim knowledge of. That leads to the conclusion that they either don't themselves understand it or that it's just not understandable because of the lack of existence of a certain logic. This is all plausible logic that elementary school kids learn to reckon with. I did not call anyone names nor attacked anyone personally.

It's funny to see someone proclaiming that others are idiots. This is especially true if you have no expertise in the domain that you are criticizing. How about starting at the basics of how functioning DeFi protocols actually work?

 

[Tokenz]

You must be confusing me with the other guy. Not once did I attack anyone personally, never called anyone names, never proclaimed names towards anyone personally. The opposite: he started calling everyone an idiot who did not swallow his poorly explained and at times completely missing the point gospel.

The problem is that those claiming domain expertise upon respectful asking refused or simply are incapable of explaining in simple terms how something works they claim knowledge of. That leads to the conclusion that they either don't themselves understand it or that it's just not understandable because of the lack of existence of a certain logic. This is all plausible logic that elementary school kids learn to reckon with. I did not call anyone names nor attacked anyone personally.

Seems to me like you are asking for very specific technical details that no one here knows the answer to. The only way to really know what the rules of a DAO are is to be part of a DAO project. These are rocket science questions, and I don't think anyone on here can give you what you are asking. And when someone can't you belittle them. It even looks like Trader Curt told you he doesn't know 100% of the answers to begin with.
Now I don't know if you just hate anyone involved in crypto or not, but it looks to me like they answered your questions to the best of their abilities. But I guess you didn't get the answers you were looking for so you made it seem like no one involved with crypto on this board knows what they are talking about. Wouldn't it be better to ask someone who is actually involved in the project instead of a forum full of token traders? Do you know every little tedious detail of the stocks you trade?

 

[Sprout]

You must be confusing me with the other guy. Not once did I attack anyone personally, never called anyone names, never proclaimed names towards anyone personally. The opposite: he started calling everyone an idiot who did not swallow his poorly explained and at times completely missing the point gospel.

The problem is that those claiming domain expertise upon respectful asking refused or simply are incapable of explaining in simple terms how something works they claim knowledge of. That leads to the conclusion that they either don't themselves understand it or that it's just not understandable because of the lack of existence of a certain logic. This is all plausible logic that elementary school kids learn to reckon with. I did not call anyone names nor attacked anyone personally.

I might be. There's a fair amount of trolls that just repeat fossilized narratives. Not sure why someone who isn't interested in being more involved with crypto would just troll crypto forums without attempting to understand emerging digital markets.

As for your question about smart contracts, they are settled with each newly mined block on a blockchain.

A DEX like Uniswap is a smart contract that uses a different pricing mechanism than the matching engine of an CEX. Both are deployed as software code, the main distinction between the two are the concepts of decentralization, trust-less, permission-less, immutability, and pseudo-anonymity. Both can liquidate your position (without human intervention) depending on where and how you've deployed your digital assets.

Your question might be more about understanding the development and capabilities of oracles as they span the gap between blockchain digital assets and meatspace processes and information feeds.

 

[2rosy]

The article explains the concept really well and I understand the concept but it does not (as all others) explain how any of the rules in the contract are enforced. It's easy to enforce the shared investment in NFT by ownership tokens, invested. But it's impossible to enforce most every other more complex contract and its rules. One very wrong assumption made with DAO is that the motivations and interests of all participants are aligned. They are totally not. If I can get rich from all others in the network working hard but I don't need to work hard then why should I work hard to start with. I could just be a freeloader. If I am good at disguising that then nobody finds out. Perhaps we get to an automated progress measure algorithm but I guess you get the point, my example was an extremely simplified one. Most problems are way more complex and contract rules and especially the enforcement of those by non humans is virtually impossible, at least as of now.

from what I understand a DAO is an entity with no requirement that the members are human beings. As for the virtual impossibility of enforcing contract rules to complex problems, I disagree. I think we can automate most

 

[Mazedonia]

Now that is something I truly appreciate. Constructive criticism. Yes I was or am not satisfied with the answers because they did not address my questions. And no, I am not a crypto hater at all. But in general in life I don't appreciate pretentious people who claim to be domain experts but then when being asked to share domain knowledge they either refuse to do so or they simply do not possess the claimed domain knowledge. I don't like priests and gospel singers who call everyone an idiot who does not join into the choir without asking pertinent questions. I read a lot about nft and Dao contracts these days but every source I consulted could not explain how the actual problem, the enforcement of the contract, is addressed. This leads me to the current conclusion that no solution exists. When now some prophets shoot everyone else down who do not swallow the pill no questions asked then I am not sure I can take such person seriously. And when someone has such thin skin that he must block those who don't follow his mantra then that raises even more questions...

To your last question, yes I think I know almost every tedious little detail about the domain I claim knowledge of. Not to show off but because knowledge of tedious details is required to be successful at what we are doing and to perform at a high level. All else is just sharing talking points. There is a difference between a hobby and risking my life savings on. I don't need to be good at what I consider my hobby or area of interest. But I better be good in something I try to sell to others or that I base my living on.

Seems to me like you are asking for very specific technical details that no one here knows the answer to. The only way to really know what the rules of a DAO are is to be part of a DAO project. These are rocket science questions, and I don't think anyone on here can give you what you are asking. And when someone can't you belittle them. It even looks like Trader Curt told you he doesn't know 100% of the answers to begin with.
Now I don't know if you just hate anyone involved in crypto or not, but it looks to me like they answered your questions to the best of their abilities. But I guess you didn't get the answers you were looking for so you made it seem like no one involved with crypto on this board knows what they are talking about. Wouldn't it be better to ask someone who is actually involved in the project instead of a forum full of token traders? Do you know every little tedious detail of the stocks you trade?

 

[Mazedonia]

I never questioned the crypto space per se. My specific question was how any DAO contract can be digitally enforced. My argument that I delivered with example was that it currently cannot. Hence the claim of DAO contracts working does simply not hold. Are there some DAO contracts that work? Yes there are and we discussed in this thread some examples. But many others don't work hence they are not the solution, at least not in current shape or firm, to broadly solve contract problems in the real world. That was my only point.

I might be. There's a fair amount of trolls that just repeat fossilized narratives. Not sure why someone who isn't interested in being more involved with crypto would just troll crypto forums without attempting to understand emerging digital markets.

As for your question about smart contracts, they are settled with each newly mined block on a blockchain.

A DEX like Uniswap is a smart contract that uses a different pricing mechanism than the matching engine of an CEX. Both are deployed as software code, the main distinction between the two are the concepts of decentralization, trust-less, permission-less, immutability, and pseudo-anonymity. Both can liquidate your position (without human intervention) depending on where and how you've deployed your digital assets.

Your question might be more about understanding the development and capabilities of oracles as they span the gap between blockchain digital assets and meatspace processes and information feeds.

 

[Mazedonia]

So again, how can you automate an employment contract and digitally enforce the agreements in the contract? On paper and in our imagination anything seems doable but when we try to actually go about making it in the real world such does not exist at this point in time. Or do you know of a contract that reasonably well scores and values the quality and efficiency of a code developer or network engineer? I have not heard of such. Please point me to an example if you know of one. I am sure we will move towards more automation but it takes time. We are not there yet.

from what I understand a DAO is an entity with no requirement that the members are human beings. As for the virtual impossibility of enforcing contract rules to complex problems, I disagree. I think we can automate most