I can teach you to be profitable real quick.

[fordewind]

@ wrbtrader

Great post.

Mods did their great job by cleaning the thread.If you look at ET banner,it`s said,in short,"people are joining to discuss trading",not trash talk or offense each other.That`s how it should be.

When i said trade differently i didn`t mean different trading methods.What i meant was,if your under pressure and need to survive,99% of traders would dump what they been doing until now right away.and stick to the very simple basic rules to survive.

People are too week and soft to simply go out on the street,let alone to trade consistenly and profitably.You tell them "an island" they imagine horny girls.lol.They could imagine horny girls while trading,as well.That could be the reason why "lonely wolfes" is looking for shops to team up,being more disciplined,etc...If your soft there is no way in hell your a lonely wolf in trading.Find a shop,team up.

There was a movie where one guy was preparing for the prison and constructed something similar to the prison in his house and asked ex prisoner to assist him.Was very funny.

 

[wrbtrader]

@ wrbtrader

Great post.

Mods did their great job by cleaning the thread.If you look at ET banner,it`s said,in short,"people are joining to discuss trading",not trash talk or offense each other.That`s how it should be.

When i said trade differently i didn`t mean different trading methods.What i meant was,if your under pressure and need to survive,99% of traders would dump what they been doing until now right away.and stick to the very simple basic rules to survive.

People are too week and soft to simply go out on the street,let alone to trade consistenly and profitably.You tell them "an island" they imagine horny girls.lol.They could imagine horny girls while trading,as well.That could be the reason why "lonely wolfes" is looking for shops to team up,being more disciplined,etc...If your soft there is no way in hell your a lonely wolf in trading.Find a shop,team up.

There was a movie where one guy was preparing for the prison and constructed something similar to the prison in his house and asked ex prisoner to assist him.Was very funny.

Actually, "lonely wolfs" is different than "lone wolf".

One implies its lonely and wants to trade with other traders while the other implies a trader prefers to trade alone...does not need in person collaboration from others in similar like trading situation.

I just think that a "lone wolf" can still remain a "lone wolf" while trading in an office with other traders. Yet, the pressure that others are there within a few feet...breathing the same air in the office...it may just be enough pressure for someone to be discipline and follow their trading plan because they see with their own two eyes that others are doing such.

These are thoughts that develop about some of the psychological advantages that institutional traders have that us retail folks do not have. For example, each trader has a review (monthly, quarterly and yearly) about their performance and they have a compliance department (kind'uv like the person with a gun) to insure the institutional trader is following the rules.

They are even immediately called into the office with the manager when any given trade isn't following the plan.

That's a huge advantage we as retail traders do not have...someone literally right there in our home office pulling us aside asking us "what the hell are you doing...now go fix it or you're fired" whenever we don't follow the trading plan.

Besides the capitalization reason, maybe that's why some traders navigate to prop firms when they don't have the academic background, internships and network to have a job at an institutional financial firm.

By the way, there's a thread here at ET where someone suggests we'll have more success if we think more like institutional traders. As soon as that thread got into the psychological aspects...it quickly died because I don't think many understood its not so much about the trader...its more about the "trading environment" that surrounds us.

 

[fordewind]

I don`t think so.Again,it`s all too soft - "compliance department" or "or your fired".That could hardly work.The phisical threat would do a lot better.Not necessarily it should be executed,but it should be hanging in the air all the time.

A trader can tell the compliance department to go off(e.g.,its my money i do whatever i want).But,"i`ll literaly bang you against the wall for wasting my time,others make a laughingstock of you,you`ll forever forget the way to the office."Agree?Then let`s go.If not,find your luck elsewhere.That`s how you become mentally tough.

Out of sports,boxing is the toughest one,but nowhere near trading,mentally.I used to do boxing as amatuer,so i can tell the difference.How many can become good boxers?Forget about trading forever.

Boxers are lonely wolfes as well.But look how their trainers treat them at times.They literally bang them at the forehead at times,when they do something wrong.Mayweather`s father used beat the gut out of his son on a daily basis.Look how mentally tough this kid.Lot`s of guys were much stronger and tougher then him phisically,but the kid is very very tough mentally.And it eventually payed off.

 

[wrbtrader]

Actually, a manager in a compliance department of an institutional firm would be arrested and fired for making threats along with being requested to take a mental evaluation at the firm's contracted "psychologists" (most top financial firms have then).

Also, the money doesn't belong to the trader. In contrast, the money belongs to the firm (e.g. Credit Suisse) and the trader is paid a salary along with possible bonus if the performance is above the norm.

In contrast, us retail traders could be threaten if we setup such a situation and approved it so that the person administrating the shock is not liable if something goes wrong.

Also, there has been tests performed to see if there's any merits to using shock to force people to follow "orders" back in the 1960s but now that type of experiment is under the scope as being flawed @ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...psychologys-most-infamous-experiments/384913/

In the military, they use psychological pressures, threats to keep soldiers orderly, controlled and many other things that some go as far to call "brain washing" and comrade peer pressure. Take this further, in society (e.g. at schools)...we have rules like dress codes, academic performance, peer pressure and many other rules to help guide us into adult hood...a minority of students fight this type of conformity to expectations by others.

My point...we've already been conditioned to follow orders and then one day some of us decide to be lone wolves...that minority that doesn't want to conform to rules and that in itself makes it difficult for us to follow our own rules.

Something to think about.

 

[fordewind]

Nice post.

Yes,i`m aware of different studies on psychology.But the thing is you do not force anyone to do anything.It`s up to a person what he/she is gonna do.But once you agree,you must completely surrender and be aware of the consequences.In school or with peers your still more or less relaxed,but one of the greates brain washers in the Army of course.Not in a regular Army maybe,but in the special forces for sure.Trading shouldn`t be any different,because so called lone wolfes are not even close to lone wolfes as they imagine.

The experiment in 60`s is flawed because shocking can only have temporary effect.No one will endure constant pressure.That`s why trading career is much like sports career.But,on the other hand,it can organize you so you will be mentally prepare better.In Nothern Korea people were crying when their Leader has gone,despite the fact the very people were put in a little box and lived like rats.Watch "Red Army" movie about the Soviet Hockey team,how they trained having the pulse rate 220 bpm,and lived in the military baraks not seeing their family for 11 months,etc...Lot`s of examples...That`s how you perform.

 

[fordewind]

BTW,in Credit Suisse,people who work there are very educated,hence better prepared mentally.You can`t work there just by your wish alone,there`s vicious selection going on there.And we are talking about poor "lone wolfes" which need to be treated violantly and punished on a daily basis.

 

[Simples]

Different methods for different strokes is my bet.
For the undisciplined dullards, threats and agitation may work to boost activity, interest and correctness.
For the disciplined risk-averse, these methods may work against the goal of profitability. You can't really scare people into taking more risk.

Every teacher will mostly teach what he/she knows from before. If someone is to create something new, there's little to be taught. So for every student-teacher combination, many of them will fail because the combination is just not a good fit. Depends on the goals and nature of the two. Much can be overcome by true motivation though.

As with everything trading, not a clear-cut answer. Generally though, positive reinforcement is seen as the superior way to teach but the most self-motivated people (ie. some top athletes).

 

[Vindago]

This thread is in the psychology section.

I think some here assumed in error that whomever this OP is...he/she is talking about trade strategy details unless the OP started this thread in the wrong section.

Someone else did a thread like this several years back and eventually he revealed (after folks guessed for many pages) rules involving discipline even though I don't think discipline can be taught...its something someone must learn on their own.

The other possibility, its just a troll thread due to how the thread was started because someone sincere interested in sharing would have posted the information in the very first post and then waited for replies to see who was interested in discussions.

Also, don't forget, the OP initially posted something in the first message post and the moderator deleted it. Not sure why but it could have been something posted in violation of the forum TOU policy. Yet, usually in that situation by a new poster...ET management usually deletes the poster instead of editing the message post.

That deletion may be the true reason why the OP really isn't willing to share and decided to play the "cat and mouse" game...he's just pssst or frustrated before the replies showed up to his moderator edited message.

Discipline is easy enough once you know what you are doing when you trade, at least that's my story...

 

[Handle123]

Discipline is easy enough once you know what you are doing when you trade, at least that's my story...

Be that as it may, you a good trader, then on Monday you ready to trade 500 lots on Crude Oil?

I am a profitable trader and have all kinds of discipline problems I am always working on, if it was not for strict rules I use, I be losing my ass like I did 25 years ago. I have complete faith in well back tested method, and I can't wait for all my forward testing complete in this automated method passes this phase, I don't care much of actually trading, never have enjoyed it, always liked the designing of the methods. I have constant thoughts to ruin my trades. Those who I have helped along my way, if they have ability to think on their own to understand simple methods to enter and several reasons when not to take trades, the other 90% is trying to overcome their issues of losing. When we spend so much time trying to find reasons why we lost and try to making them winning trades, we teach our brains horrible entries, then brain keeps looking for these trades which will often lose again. How many will get into a winning trade then feel like crap? You get nervous, it is almost feeling like knife going through our hearts of fear as trade might be going our way, you want, you need to end the trade, the pain, PLEAAASE let me out of this and in background you hear order filled-whew, made the target.

We all have problems in our life's in one way or another.

 

[Vindago]

H, I agree with you, emotions screw the trader all the time, but then, I have found my own way around that. My Trading ways could probably be improved if I would get out of bad trades , if I used stops (I do not, usually) or if I had the constant discipline and attention to do the right thing all the time.
But, I know that is not gonna work for me as there always be times when I get the wrong side of a trade for whatever reason. So, I worked around that and I found my own way to deal with the hard of getting out from bad trades and it works as I am profitable and consistent, I have been so for almost a year now and my way has worked well so far so I am OK.

The key here is that instead of focussing on beating my shortcomings and become a different person, I have found a way to work around these shortcomings that works for me...