I am suffering from information overload

virtusa said:
You have much too high expectations and you don't seem to understand that an algo is only like an excel. What you put in it will define the result, excel cannot invent a system on his own. It is just a tool. The same applies to algos. You follow what I call "the lazy approach". You do nothing but wait till an algo will produce millions for you. "
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Ok, lets unpack this a bit because others have voiced similar concerns:

"You have much too high expectations and you don't seem to understand that an algo is only like an excel. What you put in it will define the result..."

I have always agreed that the effort I put into a system will define the results I get from the system. My expectations are high, yes, but they are not too high, and they are not based on fantasies. They are based on the research I have done in this field by reading literature. I don't think it is wrong or foolish to set high standards for oneself, or to set goals that most others would think are unattainable.

"You follow what I call "the lazy approach"

Ever since I started learning about this field, I haven't acted in laziness. I've spent a great deal of my free time learning and trying solutions to problems myself. Yes, I have asked for help at times, but only after I have tried to fix the problem. I am working very hard at this now, always have been, and I intend to continue working hard in the future. It was never my intent to become lazy at any stage of this process.

"You do nothing but wait till an algo will produce millions for you."

This is false because I am currently doing "something" and have always done "something". If you read what I wrote earlier in this thread, it would be clear to you that I understand that the notion of "set it and forget it" in algo trading is false. The literature I have read says that quant strategies must be constantly developed, optimized, and sometimes retired. You seem to think that I reject this process, however what I wrote earlier suggests that I embrace it. And I do embrace it.

A few people have said something to the effect of "You haven't tried discretionary trading" or "You need to do more discretionary trading before you jump into algo trading".

I have tried discretionary trading. Have I been very profitable or done it for a very long time? No. I have lost and gained small amounts of funds in demo accounts for the purposes of learning the process. In the end I just about broke even. I do believe I understand the basics of the discretionary trading process.

I'll close by saying this: Your post frustrated me, mostly because you misrepresented my views. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate between me or anyone else. If you want to send me a DM then I will respond, but I won't engage in any more debates in this thread. I'm happy to answer any more questions that people have in the thread as long as they seem to have good intent behind them. I think my first post was effective in giving me an outlet to express my frustrations, and I feel better as a result of it. Thank you to the community for your support.
 
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skinny said:
Ok, lets unpack this a bit because others have voiced similar concerns:

"You have much too high expectations and you don't seem to understand that an algo is only like an excel. What you put in it will define the result..."

I have always agreed that the effort I put into a system will define the results I get from the system. My expectations are high, yes, but they are not too high, and they are not based on fantasies. They are based on the research I have done in this field by reading literature. I don't think it is wrong or foolish to set high standards for oneself, or to set goals that most others would think are unattainable.

"You follow what I call "the lazy approach"

Ever since I started learning about this field, I haven't acted in laziness. I've spent a great deal of my free time learning and trying solutions to problems myself. Yes, I have asked for help at times, but only after I have tried to fix the problem. I am working very hard at this now, always have been, and I intend to continue working hard in the future. It was never my intent to become lazy at any stage of this process.

"You do nothing but wait till an algo will produce millions for you."

This is false because I am currently doing "something" and have always done "something". If you read what I wrote earlier in this thread, it would be clear to you that I understand that the notion of "set it and forget it" in algo trading is false. The literature I have read says that quant strategies must be constantly developed, optimized, and sometimes retired. You seem to think that I reject this process, however what I wrote earlier suggests that I embrace it. And I do embrace it.

I'll close by saying this: Your post frustrated me, mostly because you misrepresented my views. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate between me or anyone else. If you want to send me a DM then I will respond, but I won't engage in any more debates in this thread. I'm happy to answer any more questions that people have in the thread as long as they seem to have good intent behind them. I think my first post was effective in giving me an outlet to express my frustrations, and I feel better as a result of it. Thank you to the community for your support.
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I gave you only my opinion. There it will stop. You can use it or ignore it. I daytrade for 25 years now, so I just wanted to tell what my experience was, and many posters confirmed more or less what I said.
It will be a hard and difficult road with many ups and downs. Be prepared for that. There is a reason why so many fail, and why even many professional funds cannot make decent profits.

skinny said:
I'm happy to answer any more questions that people have in the thread as long as they seem to have good intent behind them.
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I never had any bad intention. The fact that you see it as a bad intention from my part shows that you have a big ego. Big egos are detremental for traders.
Maybe one day you will reread my post and understand that it was just good advice. Good advice is many times harsh to read. But it is better than telling you that you are almost there and will make millions. Reality counts, not what you appreciate or not.
 
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Ditto to what virtusa said.

Going on 25 years also. Although algo trading is different from manual trading, the basics of handling orders and signals are the same, but it is significantly more complex to make an automaton that can handle dozens of situations aplomb.

I think what people are trying to tell you is that unless you can trade manually and be consistently profitable, not BE, it will be very hard to design an algo system that is worth your time. It is very easy to make a system that only does BE. I got hundreds of them.
Furthermore, you spend too much time in code and not enough on the trading side.

FWIW, I can trade manually profitable for about 2 weeks, then I make mistakes, miss signals, don't wake up early enough (6 AM), have distractions etc.

It is easy to track, say 12 things, for an entry or exit, but it is another thing to do it every n seconds, for an entire day and not make a single mistake, and do it for weeks upon weeks.

The algo portion of trading for me, at this point, is to solve those problems. It is not solve the trading strategy or tactics. The Algo trades worse than manual, but it is consistent and sustainable, so it is worth the tradeoff.

Hope this helps.
 
skinny said:
DISCLAIMERS: I am a newbie, and this will sound like a rant. Because it is.

I have done a lot of googling and read a few books on how to get into algo trading, and my experience has been frustrating. I am at the point where I am suffering from information overload and I feel the need to write down what I've accomplished so far (which isn't a lot).
  • There's a lot of products out there. Lately I have been looking for data sources and there are tons of companies offering data sets and feeds. Some of them are very expensive. A few of them are cheap or free. Choosing one is not easy. And there's a different product offered for every stage of the development process. Need something for backtesting? Google gives you a million different products. Charting? Ditto. Brokers? Same thing. Education? All in one solutions? You get the idea. There's too many products to choose from. What happened to an "industry standard"?
  • Errors! I'm a novice coder and most of the time the s**t just doesn't work! Sometimes this is my fault, yes. But there have been a few times where I wished that there was a way I could research the solution to the problem! Where is the good api documentation? Is the documentation updated and accurate? Where is the vibrant, active and helpful community?! I realize some products have great active communities, but which ones? And how do I find them?
  • Some of you guys who are selling stuff in this sector need to make nicer looking apps because half of this stuff looks like it was made in 1995.
  • I want to make stuff in python, please. what's with all the c# apis?
That's all I can think of for now. Please school me and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Consider the scope and scale of what you want to accomplish.
Use organized project management scheduling to prioritize, delegate, execute the tasks.
Set em up and knock em down one by one.
The only time to get overwhelmed is when you've been in bed for more than 5 hours. Rise and Shine!

organized small scale project management
https://www.dogpile.com/serp?q=organized+small+scale+project+management

It may give you encouragement to see what this cat started with, invested time and know-how, and ended up with. The yellow one. The blue one cost 9$mil at the time.
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ins-rides-etc-etc.358024/page-14#post-5609843
 
I will say this: I should have written the introduction to this thread so that it resembled the thoughts of an even-tempered, rational person. The way I wrote it did not convey this, and I take responsibility for that. I think that's part of the reason why I received the backlash I did.
 
skinny said:
I hadn't considered using a project management tool. I will look into it, thanks.
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The concept is what's important.
Something as simple as a fishbone tool and a maybe a schedule grid can be mighty useful to get things off the ground immediately with pencil and paper. Maybe just fill out the fishbone nodes with the obvious array of outcomes and resources required to accomplish the main dealio then detail only the obvious one or two that need that attention and Do something short and worthwhile to get the show on the road
Then if you find the templates or apps offer something you're already off to a running start. Just fill out the tool with what you already have and rock on. Look forward to how it goes. You have a full plate staring you in the face. Chunk it down into bitesized pieces and do the high payoff chunks first. e.g. if you see a trade staring you in the face, take the gift, lol.
simple is beautiful 98.jpg
 
For most, if you can't be profitable manually trading for 3 years plus, you will never be able to understand how to program what you have between your ears. Trading is not plugging indicators or chart patterns or variations to buy or sell, otherwise 99.5% would be multi millionaires/billionaires. It takes great amount of 10,000 hours plus of screen time for most and even with that there is no guarantee of success. There is so much to learn about risk management and charting, both difficult to program.

Until several years ago, my long term commodities method was still using basic.

But low and sell high.
Risk management keeps you from going broke.
 
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