I am not an economist by trade, but I think this is MASSIVE NEWS...

G

gastropod

I may be wrong...it wouldn't be the first time I looked like an idiot :-)

Please take a look at this page...search for the term "IRA"...as of a cached version of a doc from the Federal Reserve...IRAs were NOT part of M2!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...h6/perfeval2012.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

If you look at the "notes" from the latest release from the Federal Reserve... IRAs and 401Ks are NOW PART OF M2!!!!!

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/default.htm

What just happened? Did IRAs and 401Ks just become part of a "bail in"?

If I am wrong, please let me know!
 
Whether it's by "bail in", increased taxes, currency debasement or confiscation... we should all prepare ourselves for government/banks stealing our money/wealth or its buying power. They want the money, have the power to take it and they will... one way or another. Not all at once mind you... more like our being frogs in a pot. Rule of law, "guarantees", past policies/promises... MEAN NOTHING! They want, they take. That's it. Unless, of course, we push back to stop them.... which we pussified sheeple never do.

:(
 
Last edited:
Scataphagos said:
Whether it's by "bail in", increased taxes, currency debasement or confiscation... we should all prepare ourselves for government/banks stealing our money/wealth or its buying power. They want the money, have the power to take it and they will... one way or another. Not all at once mind you... more like our being frogs in a pot. Rule of law, "guarantees", past policies/promises... MEAN NOTHING! They want, they take. That's it. Unless, of course, we push back to stop them.... which we pussified sheeple never do.

:(
More...

Part of the problem is that there are simply too many people (voters) that have nothing to take, so why should they care if the government steals from savers so that they can redistribute money in return for votes?
 
gastropod said:
I may be wrong...it wouldn't be the first time I looked like an idiot :)

Please take a look at this page...search for the term "IRA"...as of a cached version of a doc from the Federal Reserve...IRAs were NOT part of M2!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...h6/perfeval2012.htm+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

If you look at the "notes" from the latest release from the Federal Reserve... IRAs and 401Ks are NOW PART OF M2!!!!!

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/default.htm

What just happened? Did IRAs and 401Ks just become part of a "bail in"?

If I am wrong, please let me know!
More...
Yes, you are wrong. In the footnotes (from the second link you provided), it states what is and what is not included in M2. IRAs and 401Ks are NOT part of M2.

Footnotes
  1. Blah, blah, blah
  2. M2 consists of M1 plus (1) savings deposits (including money market deposit accounts); (2) small-denomination time deposits (time deposits in amounts of less than $100,000), less individual retirement account (IRA) and Keogh balances at depository institutions; and (3) balances in retail money market mutual funds, less IRA and Keogh balances at money market mutual funds.
It states "less IRA", meaning minus or subtracted from M2.
 
schizo said:
Yes, you are wrong. In the footnotes (from the second link you provided), it states what is and what is not included in M2. IRAs and 401Ks are NOT part of M2.

Footnotes
  1. Blah, blah, blah
  2. M2 consists of M1 plus (1) savings deposits (including money market deposit accounts); (2) small-denomination time deposits (time deposits in amounts of less than $100,000), less individual retirement account (IRA) and Keogh balances at depository institutions; and (3) balances in retail money market mutual funds, less IRA and Keogh balances at money market mutual funds.
It states "less IRA", meaning minus or subtracted from M2.
More...

Like he said, it's not the first time he has looked stupid. Hahaha.
 
schizo said:
Yes, you are wrong. In the footnotes (from the second link you provided), it states what is and what is not included in M2. IRAs and 401Ks are NOT part of M2.

Footnotes
  1. Blah, blah, blah
  2. M2 consists of M1 plus (1) savings deposits (including money market deposit accounts); (2) small-denomination time deposits (time deposits in amounts of less than $100,000), less individual retirement account (IRA) and Keogh balances at depository institutions; and (3) balances in retail money market mutual funds, less IRA and Keogh balances at money market mutual funds.
It states "less IRA", meaning minus or subtracted from M2.
More...

You are ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT! The main part of the page (from the second link) clearly states that the inclusion of the IRA and 401K data would be in tables 6 and 7. You have quoted the footnotes to table 1!

If you take a look at the footnotes for table 6 you will see that...

Footnotes
Components may not add to totals due to rounding.

  1. Savings deposits include money market deposit accounts.
  2. Small-denomination time deposits are those issued in amounts of less than $100,000. All IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits.
  3. IRA and Keogh account balances at money market mutual funds are subtracted from retail money funds.
  4. Institutional money funds are not part of non-M1 M2.
This says to me that the Fed has moved IRAs and 401Ks into long term deposits...making them all the easier to use in bail ins!
 
gastropod said:
You are ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT! The main part of the page (from the second link) clearly states that the inclusion of the IRA and 401K data would be in tables 6 and 7. You have quoted the footnotes to table 1!

If you take a look at the footnotes for table 6 you will see that...

Footnotes
Components may not add to totals due to rounding.

  1. Savings deposits include money market deposit accounts.
  2. Small-denomination time deposits are those issued in amounts of less than $100,000. All IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits.
  3. IRA and Keogh account balances at money market mutual funds are subtracted from retail money funds.
  4. Institutional money funds are not part of non-M1 M2.
This says to me that the Fed has moved IRAs and 401Ks into long term deposits...making them all the easier to use in bail ins!
More...

Even in the footnotes you've quoted, it clearly states that "IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits". Anyway, I ain't interested in pursuing this matter any further, so peace.

===========================
Footnotes
Components may not add to totals due to rounding.

  1. Savings deposits include money market deposit accounts.
  2. Small-denomination time deposits are those issued in amounts of less than $100,000. All IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits.
  3. IRA and Keogh account balances at money market mutual funds are subtracted from retail money funds.
  4. Institutional money funds are not part of non-M1 M2.
===========================
 
schizo said:
Even in the footnotes you've quoted, it clearly states that "IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits". Anyway, I ain't interested in pursuing this matter any further, so peace.

===========================
Footnotes
Components may not add to totals due to rounding.

  1. Savings deposits include money market deposit accounts.
  2. Small-denomination time deposits are those issued in amounts of less than $100,000. All IRA and Keogh account balances at commercial banks and thrift institutions are subtracted from small time deposits.
  3. IRA and Keogh account balances at money market mutual funds are subtracted from retail money funds.
  4. Institutional money funds are not part of non-M1 M2.
===========================
More...

While schizo may not respond any more, I am still compelled to respond. I agree that IRAs, etc. are subtracted from "small time deposits" - they must go somewhere - they don't vanish into thin air! As stated by this notice - they are not part of small time deposits. Further, they are NOT part of the institutional money funds. My only thought is that either a "new creation" was done for IRAs and Keoghs...or they were treated as long term time deposits. Like I stated in the thread subject - I am not an economist, but, I do have a little understanding of economics. IIRC M2 and M3 (now no longer reported by the Fed) had a "long term time deposit" component...as well as a "short term time deposit" component. The distinction of "small time deposit" appears to me as a facade. Who, previously, cared if a deposit were small or large? Previous M2 and M3 calculations were about time duration. This present distinction of "small time deposits" and the unstated, but implied "large time deposits" seems to conveniently lend itself to "buy ins" and other nasty tricks that nefarious bankster may wish to use.
 
Has the worm turned ?
Perhaps the voters will make the Govt. more responsible for what it spends, but I doubt Trumpie will pay any attention as he spends every last penny.
 
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