I am getting my butt handed to me on a daily basis!

[jack hershey]

Quote from smwbbe:

Your chart from the 4th shows the 'c' turn on bar 19 with the Ab to PP4 linkage (SetD). Presumably, you would have gone LONG on the next bar after establishing your BM on the low end of bar 19.

All of the EE's shown in volume have turns shown in price.

Names are used in each location. The trader annotates and logs to make a monitoring and analysis record. the trader also trades. by doing reversals and holds during trend formations.

The reversals are "carved" as I will begin to explain as the months go by. I use 10 to 12 leading indicators of signals to carve turns to take the full offer of the market.

The point of doing expert trading is to take the full offer of the market. To do this you have to follow a learning process to gain knowledge and have long term memory of that knowledge.

Your comment above speaks about how you did not handle information as it was presented to you by the market. If you do not know what is going on WHEN it is going on, then you are NOT effective nor Efficient.

THe purpose of trading with any system is to use it effectively and efficienctly. you may be able to aggree that doing trading where a person is so weak mentally that he waits for confirmation is NOT an Efficient nor Effective type of trading approach.

Confirmation, therefore, is replaced with "anticipation".

In the above you present an invention of yours, namely: waiting one bar to do a late untimely reversal. Come back to the directions you have been given instead. This is a hold/reversal strategy. Reversals are done in trading as the D and A of MADA. If and when you are told to reverse, you reverse. reversing is simple. You do a two fold event of taking profits and starting a position on the opposite side of the market.

carving involved two advantages: a great exit and a great rentry on the opposite sentiment.

The arrow on the chart has the color of the new sentiment. the arrow is in the vicinity before it is placed. Exits have no color except for the green of profit taking.

Adding a bookmark (BM) comes well after the reversal. the reversal trade comes at the very moment of LOCK-IN of the information content of the bar.

How did you handle that rarely occurring opportunity - two consecutive OBs/PP4s?

With extremely careful and thorough consideration all after the market closed. I have several cross-referencing systems that make things very clear and certain.

 

[smwbbe]

Quote from jack hershey:SNIP
You mention four EE's from one of three sheets of EE's. The 35 EE's all are handled the same way. With all EE's you collect that profit segment. For the failsafe EE's you may just do a wash reversal or just make a small profit on the BO, T1 reversal.

I am really trying to learn from you. In the past, you indicated that this method required for you to hold through ‘a’ and ‘b’ turns and reverse on ‘c’ turns. From reviewing many of your charts, ‘a’ and ‘b’ turns correspond to EEs and thus reversals - a modification from what you’d previously indicated. The system has evolved and that’s great - I was just looking for clarification.
Also, the verbiage of a volume measurement and not and event measurement threw me. I’m clear now on how to handle those situations.

Quote from jack hershey:
The P1 assignment is different than you post. It is done by looking at the band first. You are on a bar that had an EE. If the band is the A band OR a failsafe EE, then you place the P1 on that bar.

If the above is false, then you DO NOT assign the P1 to the EE bar. Further, if you DO NOT assign the P1 on the EE, you have to consider and understand just exactly where it is placed. The answer is that you assign the P1 on the first measurable bar after the EE bar. You do not understand this process.

I actually do understand this process, but based on surmising that some of the EEs were handled differently than others, I asked a less than stellar question. If the EE is a failsafe or an A Band EE, that bar is used for P1. If not, the first measurable bar is used == not a WAIT bar.

Quote from jack hershey:
You must also understand what to do if and when you get permission one way or another.

If the EE was a PP1 and the subsequent bar is a sym pennant without increasing volume, is the bar just ignored? The P1 would be assigned to the next measurable bar?

Quote from jack hershey:
You are posting an invention you created. I am extinguishing each and every one of the inventions you create. If possible forgo creating inventions.

I did not mean to give the impression that I was inventing. I thought I was inferring, but obviously I did so incorrectly. No inventions here. I’m just trying to take it all in.

Quote from jack hershey:
Understanding is a poor word that is associated with learning. I consider you to be a peer so there is no "under". The many questions I ask you are to help me find out who you are. At some point you may consider helping me out.

I wish I considered myself to be a ‘peer’ with you… In an earlier post, you mentioned Meyers/Briggs. I neglected to respond with my indicator: ESTJ. I am also a female. In this seemingly male-dominated field, I’m giving it a go. Perhaps these tidbits of information will give you a little greater insight into who I am.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from FrontRunner:

Jack- just wanted to say thanks for all the help.

here is Jacks 10-07-13 chart with PP1' s highlighted in yellow. A catalog of the Pre- Primary Volume Band Sheet is something I am working on.

Makiing a catalog of each of the 35 EE's is a good idea. Starting with the PP's is best since they occur most often. As do the failsafe two items since they are so frequent. Print in portrait and label by date and bar. File in chron since first examples are good exmples. Tab nuances you think you see.

I use snagit on charts.

As you watch the day unfold it is good to have a 30 minute screen annotated with channels and have the volume showing the catenary described on the PVT chart.

A third effort that telescopes learning is to catalog the four types of trends:

1. c to c

2. c to a to c

3. c to a to b to c

and

4. a to (a to b) ... (a to b) to c

Also notice what times of day these frequent. Also notice how the c to c's cluster in groups of three. Also notice how c to a to c's get built after c to c clusters.

On a lot of sim trading platforms it is possible to watch BP (Buying Power). Try to let the profits take care of themselves. But do monitor your progress in being purposeful.

At first just do a trading fractal that does D to D turns (the c turns). You will get accustomed to being more relaxed. You can see your progress is closely related to channel trading correctly on a 30 minute chart.

When you move to trading all turns, you better begin to write strategies. Work hard to combine the Type trend and the type turn.

Soon, I will post a pictogram of using the DOM in conjuction with the all turns better strategy.

all turns trading brings out how the combination of facility and anticipation becomes vert rewarding.

Annotating can be done anyways at first BUT, then the process has to become effective and efficient. I recommend:

0. check new BP; Add one or more contracts. (partial fill) and adjust to the new reversal value.

1. Sliding the pre placed colored arrow into position

2. Add the rtl at its point 1

3. Add the book mark

4. Annotate the volume EE

5. Add the named turn box.

6. pull the rtl into place at point 3 on the forming bar.

7. do not scalp early profits.

8. at lock in annotate volume.

9. Use past EE as n-1 and find the n's for this profit segment by using the correct trend context.

10. Use locked in volume And ( to cut list size to three choices including a failsafe.

11. Recheck trading platform to be sure hold contract value matches the pending profit taking value.

12. strat first step of trade. spike check

13. observe "confirmation box is visible (put arrow on yes). release mouse carefully.

14. Update all columns of log.

14. Annotate, ajust rtl if necessary.

15. jot next turn in journal

16. Do O and E check.

17 Do volatility check on price vis a vis PRV value. spike check

18. Use PRV to start more logging. (extend multi row down arrows.)

19. locate eraser.

20. Anticipate.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from smwbbe:

I am really trying to learn from you. In the past, you indicated that this method required for you to hold through ‘a’ and ‘b’ turns and reverse on ‘c’ turns. From reviewing many of your charts, ‘a’ and ‘b’ turns correspond to EEs and thus reversals - a modification from what you’d previously indicated.

the c turn to cturn trading handles a given trading fractal. c to c means that the dominant sentiment is changing reversal by reversal.

as a person gets proficient, then more time strteches out as time passes.

at some point the person has facility and then he can also move into the future a small distance. Here is where anticipation is on the chart and log. arrows can be placed in this future place as prt of anticipation. Symbols can be put there as well.

when you sit at anticipation you see turns of all types coming into view. this is also a point in learning where you are looking at leading indicators of price. some of these are 'tells' smart money hands out to the expert trader. these 'tells' are more frequent than the info appearing on the T&S (which ranks thrid in frequency of activity).

So it turns out that moving to a higher level of money velocity in profit taking begins to appear on the table. The system is not evolving, using the system corctly is evolving.

Perception has all kinds of stoppers. They have to go away so purposeful learning can dominate.

The system has evolved and that’s great - I was just looking for clarification.
Also, the verbiage of a volume measurement and not and event measurement threw me. I’m clear now on how to handle those situations.

Good

I actually do understand this process, but based on surmising that some of the EEs were handled differently than others, I asked a less than stellar question. If the EE is a failsafe or an A Band EE, that bar is used for P1. If not, the first measurable bar is used == not a WAIT bar.

If the EE was a PP1 and the subsequent bar is a sym pennant without increasing volume, is the bar just ignored? The P1 would be assigned to the next measurable bar?

I did not mean to give the impression that I was inventing. I thought I was inferring, but obviously I did so incorrectly. No inventions here. I’m just trying to take it all in.

I wish I considered myself to be a ‘peer’ with you… In an earlier post, you mentioned Meyers/Briggs. I neglected to respond with my indicator: ESTJ. I am also a female. In this seemingly male-dominated field, I’m giving it a go. Perhaps these tidbits of information will give you a little greater insight into who I am.

thanks. I was a first responder Friday am. Victim was female. Skull fracture turned her into child as she regained consciousness. Pulse never did resume to normal and same for breathing. I had crossed three lanes of busy interstate only to find my risk was not rewarded. I was not carrying jump kit so I had to assemble four others who used stuff we called for. Paper towels can stop bleeding and tube can stabilize verts 1 through 4. Finally I demanded a pillow and bath towels from any gawker. It took 8 minutes to get to her having power of speech in any form. Internal organ damages turned into her saying she had bathroom problems... She never did get to be able to feel pain.

I think this is proceeding in super manner.

Big plusses are that you DO use the tables.

you Do see the sequences.

you are beginning to interlock the OOE's for various things.

I am oreinting to building with you instead of going from concept to detail.

read the Behavioral Finance 5 steps in the home page topic "BF or BS". we are iteratively refining.

Get a DOM ladder if you can. Also find an OTR chart with P and V so we can gleen more about residence time on pairs of BestBids/BestAsks.

One of my best woman locals is NY lawyer turned trader. She is great on seeing geometric trend endings as FTT's on price cannels using pairs of Time Frames. The time frames are 4 and 3 in am and 3 and 2 in pm. Think of fighter pilot formations peeling off.

 

[river]

Quote from jack hershey:

One of my best woman locals is NY lawyer turned trader. She is great on seeing geometric trend endings as FTT's on price cannels using pairs of Time Frames. The time frames are 4 and 3 in am and 3 and 2 in pm. Think of fighter pilot formations peeling off.

When I read your comment above last evening, I thought you were simply adding some color, for smwbbe’s benefit, about another female trader you know. (I have noticed over the years that you do add some color to your posts from time to time.)

In a probable sign that I missed something of importance, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about that comment and those pairs of time frames. It’s interesting that the time frames shorten in the afternoon. Are those “minute” time frames, and are they on the same contract (e.g. both ES) or related contracts (e.g. ES and YM)?

-river

 

[xioxxio]

Jack, thank you for all your effort.

Regarding laterals that have a RETRO in place;

I am aware we measure volume elements. Do we draw RTL's and BM's since I am finding using RTL's/BM's we are going around in a vicious circle of EE’s ?

Thanks

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from river:

When I read your comment above last evening, I thought you were simply adding some color, for smwbbe’s benefit, about another female trader you know. (I have noticed over the years that you do add some color to your posts from time to time.)

In a probable sign that I missed something of importance, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about that comment and those pairs of time frames. It’s interesting that the time frames shorten in the afternoon. Are those “minute” time frames, and are they on the same contract (e.g. both ES) or related contracts (e.g. ES and YM)?

-river

thanks fo Q.

Many people use multiple Time Frames (TF's); three is most common.

for years the former trading room in tucson used a two minute YM and a 5 minute ES. The Ym leads the ES anyways, so why not use adjacent fractals in adjacent markets. A TF is different tnan a fractal and most TF's do show three observable fractals.

using a 4 and 3 mnute TF may not seem like much but it does differentiate. The same for the pm 3 and 2. The common thread is the 3 so the 4 becomes a 2 as you would expect.

All of this has to do with anticipation.

Once facility is achieved and a person is incentivised, then the person focuses on the leading "tells" of making money. Channels are places where the FTT "tells" can show clearly.

One of the key factors in carving turns is getting to detecting the extremes of profit segments. Adjacent TF's are just like the signals of leading indicators of price in many respects.

In trading, the open and the pm BO are entered smartly. The midday is usually devoted to record keeping to be able to handle the pm BO as well as the carryover handles bar 1.

You may not have two reversals on the pm BO as on bar 1, but it is the same less intense routine.

By using adjacent TF's it as possible to more clearly see the peeling off of market "signals".

Most multiple TF users are not fractal oriented so they use independent time frames instead of interlocking fractals.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from xioxxio:

Jack, thank you for all your effort.

Regarding laterals that have a RETRO in place;

I am aware we measure volume elements. Do we draw RTL's and BM's since I am finding using RTL's/BM's we are going around in a vicious circle of EE’s ?

Thanks

Welcome to the world of considering the relationship of bar price volatility to bar price overlap.

To calm your calculating mind add the 30 min TF and use a channel approach on the 30 min TF.

Fail safe eases yo into a faster fractal relationship with the market. This means you have to "enforce" more strongly your respect for market context.

Today, I picked up my weekend writing assignments for handing out Monday pm.

as a person shifts to more events per day, he move to a faster fractal emphasis. This means more money is made and made faster (money velocity increases).

Often traders whose facility is lower than achievable get to experience the bar volatility challenge. This is caused by a relative weakness in the person's inference. demands are being made of stuff not honed in the past. A few nights sleep corrects this.

I agree "vicious" is a word that could come from established inference. So soon "vicious" will be surrounded by words that form a pseudo tumor that isolates viciousness once and for all.

Take another look at the channel chart that prepped to make a targeted one point from a "confirmed entry." The trader left all those rtl/BM reversals inert and unseen. You are not however, since the rtl/bm world is offering a vicious looking opportunity to take points by the minute (see bar volatility beckoning to you).

 

[frenchfry]

Going to unknown territory... DOM... OTR... T&S... is this arrangement correct/ideal?

 

[CafeRacer]

Quote from jack hershey:

[B

the rule is different after bar three created a lateral. the rule is that the next bars are lateral bars if the close is within the limits of the high and low of bar 1 of the lateral. Equal to is regarded as within.

[/B]

Hi Jack
my attached EVERY BAR DEGAP chart for today shows four laterals.
according to your rule on laterals, would you help clarify when exactly they would be killed? I show where i think they are killed.

the one marked with the arrows could either be one big lat (ending on my bar 56) or a smaller lat ending on bar 43.....which is it?

thanks