i am dying to get in the pits

Alrighty..

1) mcurto is not a CBOT employee
2) I am not a CBOT employee. I work in NYC now for a major interdealer broker (who so happens to have an office off of the atrium in CBOT)

To the original poster, these people are providing you with valuable information. And it's true. The bond pits have NO action whatsoever.

Take this for consideration. I knew a bond local (10/30Y pit) who HAD to make the move to the screen. The volume dried up so bad for his style of trading in the pit that he was willing [WILLING] to go to the screen even though he had used a computer only once before in his life. He got his ass handed to him, and retired. He would have gone back to the bond pit [if there was adequate vol to trade down there].

Go apply to the MGEX or something. And don't be an asshole, because let me tell you something kid: You be an asshole to people, this community is small.. You might be in the pit one day and nobody will trade with you. Perhaps you should read more pit trading books, learn how it worked and how it works now.

EDIT:
We fired our bond brokers and hired a couple locals.
 
Quote from triggertrader:

ummm errrrr. employee for the CBOT and work at the CBOT is the same thing. yes i gues you are wasting time trying to explain to me that you work for the CBOT yet you dont work for the CBOT....lol.do you speak english by eny chance mr "mcurto"?
More...

Work At the cbot and Work For the cbot are two different things. Look it up in the CBOT rulebook..

Can you spell correctly in English Mr. "Trigger Trader"?

Just in case you don't have the aptitude to find the CBOT rulebook and accurately locate the section defining the definition of a CBOT "employee" and "member/affiliated person", here it is for you both in print and via URL.


http://www.cbot.com/cbot/pub/page/0,3181,931,00.html

There's Membership (Chapter 2)
http://www.cbot.com/cbot/pub/cont_detail/0,3206,931+32159,00.html

There's Member Classes:
See Rules 290.00-296.00

A CBOT employee doesn't have to pay the DUES [Lease]:
Rule 240.00-246.00

Allowed Personnel on the CBOT Floor:

301.00 Admission to the Floor
The only persons who may be admitted to the Floor of the Exchange are members of the Exchange, Floor Clerks and Broker Assistants authorized under Regulation 301.05 and Appendix 3B, persons holding trading permits under Regulations 209.01 or 209.04, permitted guests under Regulation 301.02, and authorized employees and agents of the Exchange. No one but a member or an authorized permit holder shall execute any open auction transaction in futures or options on the Floor of the Exchange. (09/01/06)

Authorized Employees:
Pit Reporters
OIA (Office Of Investigations and Audits)
CBOT Board Members
and their designated guests (must comply with 301.02)

While you're at it hotshot, you may want to at least read the RULES for the market(s) you purport to trade here:

Those can be found here:

Ch 3. Floor and Floor Trading Practices
300.00-360.00

Chapter 9b - ecbot
9B.01-9B.21

Chapter 18 - US Treasury Bonds
1801.00-1880.01

You may want to pay particular attention to:

1810.01, 1806.01, 1809.01 [don't want to take delivery, a.k.a. write a check your ass cannot cash]

what happens in USTB when you write a check your ass can't cash:
1850.01

Chapter 24 - Long Term T-Notes (6 1/2 to 10-Year)
2401.00-2480.01

Again, pay special interest to:
2404.01, 2412.02 (important if you actually *do* trade more than 1 lot)
2442.01, 2450.01

Read that and get back to us.

Oh while you're at it [but you appear to know everything so this is probably a waste of your time]

Appendices:
2A
2B
2C (gotta have capital to pitch the one lot)
3C - yes they will fine you if you break it.
3D


37C - might help you out a bit.
 
Quote from triggertrader:

i'm not arguing that the US is more liquid than the pit. volume is alot higher in the ZB. but the total open interest refects both pit and electronic since they are supposed to be same markets.....well, supposed to be untill they fix the mistakes with the large spreads between the 2. when i say a liquid pit i am refering to open interest which is the most important thing. my point is the daily structured charts are much more stable and have much more structure than electronic. electronic mix overnight stuff where volume is about 10 guys in there. i dont want price activity mixed in 3am and have to worry becuase someone sneezed in russia. trading in u.s. markets should be done during day sessions between 8:20 - 2:15 and close. markets need structure. electrnic markets dont have it.
as far as "dead and finished" you're wrong. i am still trading it. 4 winning trades in a row since i stopped trading the wretched uncontrollable ZB with erratic stop loss triggering spreads.
i am not ignorant to the fact that electrnic markets are the future. but there will always be a pit. humans control machines, machines dont control humans. while there is still a liquid pit i will be there to trade it.
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Trigger, you need to be careful. I'm going to say this in the kindest way possible, but you are looking like an idiot. You obviously don't have any idea how markets find prices. There is no "they" to fix the "problem" and there is no "problem" to be fixed.

Your entire argument about daily charts having more structure is stupid. Daily bars are something we impose on the market, not a reality. All markets will eventually be 24 hour markets, and very soon.

Markets evolve, markets change. This is one major (and obvious) way that markets are currently changing. You are going to have to change with them or die.

As someone with a lot of experience both in the pit and on the screen, let me tell you our fills are consistently better on the screen. Though our friends down on the floor, even on the New York exchanges, have discovered they can actually fill limits when it trades through and stops without huge slippage. I say this tongue in cheek because those of us who have been around a while in this business know that the threat of electronic markets cleaned up a lot of crap in the pits, but matching orders is still something computers do better.

I also glanced at your original post, but I didn't take the time to figure it out. You lost what? 30-some ticks on a 1 lot? Who cares? This is obviously amateur hour. I won't slam someone trading 1 lots (the ONLY way to start), but don't act like you're a BSD. (If you don't know what that is, that's another sign of your inexperience.)

And losing an extra thousand on a contract? Yeah sometimes shit happens. Shit happens a lot when you trade. This time it happened to you. If you get really good you can look forward to shit happening that costs you a thousand per contract on 20, then 100 lots. Move on.

This whole argument about going to the floor is also dumb. Go the either of the Chicago exchanges, stand around and talk to traders on smoke breaks and someone will eventually sign you in so you can see the floor. However, talk to these guys outside smoking and ask them about the business and about the advisibility of going to the floor. A plane ticket to Chi-town costs, what? a few hundred at most? I hate to see people have no clue when it is so easy, with a little effort, to get a clue.

Why do I say Chicago instead of New York? You aren't likely to find someone to take you on the floor in New York unless you have a friend. This is more likely to happen in Chicago. This, by the way, is how I got started in the business a long time ago so I'm speaking from experience.

The way of the pit is going and gone. No point getting in that game now because there's just no volume in the pits. Learn the screen instead.

I probably won't reply to replies to this thread... Sometimes stupidity sticks up like a nail and I had a hammer today. Sorry for ranting.
 
Quote from talontrading:

Trigger, you need to be careful. I'm going to say this in the kindest way possible, but you are looking like an idiot. You obviously don't have any idea how markets find prices. There is no "they" to fix the "problem" and there is no "problem" to be fixed.

Your entire argument about daily charts having more structure is stupid. Daily bars are something we impose on the market, not a reality. All markets will eventually be 24 hour markets, and very soon.

Markets evolve, markets change. This is one major (and obvious) way that markets are currently changing. You are going to have to change with them or die.

As someone with a lot of experience both in the pit and on the screen, let me tell you our fills are consistently better on the screen. Though our friends down on the floor, even on the New York exchanges, have discovered they can actually fill limits when it trades through and stops without huge slippage. I say this tongue in cheek because those of us who have been around a while in this business know that the threat of electronic markets cleaned up a lot of crap in the pits, but matching orders is still something computers do better.

I also glanced at your original post, but I didn't take the time to figure it out. You lost what? 30-some ticks on a 1 lot? Who cares? This is obviously amateur hour. I won't slam someone trading 1 lots (the ONLY way to start), but don't act like you're a BSD. (If you don't know what that is, that's another sign of your inexperience.)

And losing an extra thousand on a contract? Yeah sometimes shit happens. Shit happens a lot when you trade. This time it happened to you. If you get really good you can look forward to shit happening that costs you a thousand per contract on 20, then 100 lots. Move on.

This whole argument about going to the floor is also dumb. Go the either of the Chicago exchanges, stand around and talk to traders on smoke breaks and someone will eventually sign you in so you can see the floor. However, talk to these guys outside smoking and ask them about the business and about the advisibility of going to the floor. A plane ticket to Chi-town costs, what? a few hundred at most? I hate to see people have no clue when it is so easy, with a little effort, to get a clue.

Why do I say Chicago instead of New York? You aren't likely to find someone to take you on the floor in New York unless you have a friend. This is more likely to happen in Chicago. This, by the way, is how I got started in the business a long time ago so I'm speaking from experience.

The way of the pit is going and gone. No point getting in that game now because there's just no volume in the pits. Learn the screen instead.

I probably won't reply to replies to this thread... Sometimes stupidity sticks up like a nail and I had a hammer today. Sorry for ranting.
More...

Agreed.
Very valuable post.
And triggertrader obviously has no clue.
:p
 
Quote from talontrading:

Trigger, you need to be careful. I'm going to say this in the kindest way possible, but you are looking like an idiot. You obviously don't have any idea how markets find prices. There is no "they" to fix the "problem" and there is no "problem" to be fixed.

Your entire argument about daily charts having more structure is stupid. Daily bars are something we impose on the market, not a reality. All markets will eventually be 24 hour markets, and very soon.

Markets evolve, markets change. This is one major (and obvious) way that markets are currently changing. You are going to have to change with them or die.

As someone with a lot of experience both in the pit and on the screen, let me tell you our fills are consistently better on the screen. Though our friends down on the floor, even on the New York exchanges, have discovered they can actually fill limits when it trades through and stops without huge slippage. I say this tongue in cheek because those of us who have been around a while in this business know that the threat of electronic markets cleaned up a lot of crap in the pits, but matching orders is still something computers do better.

I also glanced at your original post, but I didn't take the time to figure it out. You lost what? 30-some ticks on a 1 lot? Who cares? This is obviously amateur hour. I won't slam someone trading 1 lots (the ONLY way to start), but don't act like you're a BSD. (If you don't know what that is, that's another sign of your inexperience.)

And losing an extra thousand on a contract? Yeah sometimes shit happens. Shit happens a lot when you trade. This time it happened to you. If you get really good you can look forward to shit happening that costs you a thousand per contract on 20, then 100 lots. Move on.

This whole argument about going to the floor is also dumb. Go the either of the Chicago exchanges, stand around and talk to traders on smoke breaks and someone will eventually sign you in so you can see the floor. However, talk to these guys outside smoking and ask them about the business and about the advisibility of going to the floor. A plane ticket to Chi-town costs, what? a few hundred at most? I hate to see people have no clue when it is so easy, with a little effort, to get a clue.

Why do I say Chicago instead of New York? You aren't likely to find someone to take you on the floor in New York unless you have a friend. This is more likely to happen in Chicago. This, by the way, is how I got started in the business a long time ago so I'm speaking from experience.

The way of the pit is going and gone. No point getting in that game now because there's just no volume in the pits. Learn the screen instead.

I probably won't reply to replies to this thread... Sometimes stupidity sticks up like a nail and I had a hammer today. Sorry for ranting.
More...

hmmmmm. i start trading electronic, get burned then go back to the pit and run off 4 winning trades and i get attacked for being succesful....hmmmmmmm....verrrrrrry interesting....perhaps the name of this site should be eliteCBOTemployees.com...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
where is that scratchy head icon smiley?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lol!:p
 
I give up. I am certainly wasting my time on this post. I had written a lengthy explanation of the 30yr bond futures open interest and how it would take the pit nearly 275 trading days to turn that over in terms of trading volume (3,000 a day to 800,000 open interest). At least I define a liquid contract as one that is able to trade its entire (or at least half) open interest within a one day period. And if we are considering the pit and screen as two different markets than the pit 30yr does definitely NOT fit that criteria. Frankly I am pretty sure Trigger would still have no idea what I am talking about in that regard. I recommend this thread be closed because it is really not serving a purpose for anyone, only wasted space in what I thought was an infinite amount available in cyberspace.
 
Quote from triggertrader:

hmmmmm. i start trading electronic, get burned then go back to the pit and run off 4 winning trades and i get attacked for being succesful....hmmmmmmm....verrrrrrry interesting....perhaps the name of this site should be eliteCBOTemployees.com...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
where is that scratchy head icon smiley?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lol!:p
More...

Would your 4 winning trades have been losers if filled through e cbot? I doubt.
 
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