I Am A Self-Directed Trader About To Broker With JP Morgan's Institutional Side

The only way to find that type of liquidity is by using an upstairs desk. We have one, but not like that. That type of order will have a large market impact and incur a desk fee. They are very large orders even for JPM.


MollieJp said:
I am not bringing in below the amount that you stated.

Also, for example, is there a possibility that if I wanted to enter a long put for up to 100,000 SPX, get all the liquidity I can get there without moving markets, before going into other index options, then equity options, etc. (till I get my required fill equivalent to 100k SPX's nominal value), that your risk will hold my order and ask me to break it down in size? Or ask me to get in slower? Of course at best you will say you do not know and I'd have to enquire more perhaps, but the ultimate answer will be yes. This is despite the fact that the risk it poses to your firm would be near zero.

Also, what options do you guys have for DMA and DSA access, including your algo order routing? Is it competitive with the bulge brackets? Will I be able to make block trades and find counterparties that are competitive to a Morgan or Goldman?

I have different needs from the vast majority of retail traders, but I suppose using the word retail trader has created confusion.... though that is what I am in everything but account value (and hell, I'd even say that latter part isn't true, I know of retail clients that have account values in the 10 figures).
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MacBookProHo said:
If you don't mind saying so,
What's your back story as it regards to trading, and your past/other life?

Supposedly you have...let's throw a large random number out.....60 million from somewhere. And one day, out of the blue, you decided you want to buy 200,000 SPX options contracts?

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are not a weirdo troll.
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I sold a business for a significant sum to a large tech company. The world of finance is completely foreign to me, and I don't know too many people in it. I started trading in 2019, started making very large returns (on a fairly large starting balance) during the covid sell-off. Ever since I have been taking it more seriously and trying to get a better understanding of this world as I do feel (perhaps incorrectly!) that I have an edge in certain areas. Been doing very well for three years, but I feel I'm hitting very large limits on how far I can go without doing business through the very big firms.

So, it's been three years. Not my first rodeo, but without a formalized education in any aspect of finance or trading, or so much as a single online course under my belt, I have gaps in basic knowledge in some areas (while quite advanced knowledge in others). So, this is why I resort to occasionally asking questions online to my fellow traders!

Really just lookin for some good advice. I'm always all ears and want to be a sponge.
 
Robert Morse said:
The only way to find that type of liquidity is by using an upstairs desk. We have one, but not like that. That type of order will have a large market impact and incur a desk fee. They are very large orders even for JPM.
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is an upstairs desk? Are we talking the Sales & Trading division of the bank usually?

EDIT: Are you just referring to the ECNs (and ATSs more generally) that big institutions most often use? If so, that's exactly what I'm talking about!
 
There are a number of trade desks at these types of firms. When I was an Option Market Maker, I would get shown some of the orders from BTIG. Sometimes the order would come down to the option floor to find liquidity too. They show that they have an order to buy an option spread or outright vs stock or not and Market Makers would respond. A Broker like JPM might or GS might be willing to take some or all of the other side if they can hedge it and get a favorable price. They also have access to Hedge funds that do that type of trading. Sending an order like that to the CBOE order book or a floor broker is going to be disruptive in and out. As to what division at JPM has the option block desk, I have no idea. You should discuss this with them.

MollieJp said:
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an upstairs desk? Are we talking the Sales & Trading division of the bank usually?

EDIT: Are you just referring to the ECNs (and ATSs more generally) that big institutions most often use? If so, that's exactly what I'm talking about!
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Robert Morse said:
These terms refer to equity not options exchanges. Feel free to call me tomorrow. Going offline for the night.
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Thank you very much for the free call. I will certainly do so! I was going to respond to the post previous to this one, but I will just ask you on the phone if that's alright.
 
newwurldmn said:
100,000 spx options!!!!

that would probably be the largest notional print ever in equity derivatives.
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I would have to personally see a screen shot to believe that sh8t.
An order of 200,000 SPX options would make someone a billionaire in a year, or even a month, assuming good/great timing, of course.

It doesn't take that many 200,000 SPX options trades/orders...to make someone an eventual billionaire,
If this person is legit....that would be like spotting a rare Albino Blue Whale,
 
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