i understand that tony robbins is a licensee of bandler creation. the stuff works, but are you willing to pay the PRICE ???
surf
surf
Hypnosis Anyone?
- Thread starter Pabst
- Start date
Tony Robbins is not a licensee of Bandler, nor does he proclaim to be. Bandler does not license anyone. He does has a certification system to assure quality of knowledge and ability. I know this as my brother is a certified NLP practitioner and trainer and we've both met Bandler and Robbins have worked with this material for more than ten years.
As to the cost, I'd ask what you're comparing to. Again, I'm not interested in debating this, I just don't want interested people to be misled. My investment in books, tapes, seminars, travel expense, etc is nothing when compared to what a conventional college education costs (and a damn site more useful). Also, my investment is nil, compared to where I would be without the education and the knowledge and skill associated with it.
Quality education does not cost anything if you use it, it pays. It's like a tool. One of my businesses is horticultural. I have one partner. We have more equipment than most small businesses employing a dozen or more people. The cost of that equipment to most small business people seems overwhelming, yet for some reason, we make a ton of money(hint: because we have the right tools to work fast). Education is just like that. The people that invest in the tools (or get educated) and use it, find it indispensable. The people that don't, just go on and on about how expensive it is, only to spend their precious time wasting it inefficiently and unproductively. From what I've observed, trading is very similar. The small minority who really make it, made the investment, one way or the other.
As to the cost, I'd ask what you're comparing to. Again, I'm not interested in debating this, I just don't want interested people to be misled. My investment in books, tapes, seminars, travel expense, etc is nothing when compared to what a conventional college education costs (and a damn site more useful). Also, my investment is nil, compared to where I would be without the education and the knowledge and skill associated with it.
Quality education does not cost anything if you use it, it pays. It's like a tool. One of my businesses is horticultural. I have one partner. We have more equipment than most small businesses employing a dozen or more people. The cost of that equipment to most small business people seems overwhelming, yet for some reason, we make a ton of money(hint: because we have the right tools to work fast). Education is just like that. The people that invest in the tools (or get educated) and use it, find it indispensable. The people that don't, just go on and on about how expensive it is, only to spend their precious time wasting it inefficiently and unproductively. From what I've observed, trading is very similar. The small minority who really make it, made the investment, one way or the other.
i am knocking bandler, his stuff works. are you willing to pay the PRICE does not refer to monetary cost. hope you understand.
best,
surf
best,
surf
sorry, previous post should read "i am not knocking bandler..." sorry :eek:
furthermore, bandler does have licenses and tony robins is one of them. www.purenlp.com/rbnnn.htm
best,
surf 
best,
surf
marketsurfer, now I get what you mean. Yes, the price is substantial and ongoing. I imagine that most people aren't willing to pay "that" price.
pabst, you're right, this is a difficult subject to explain because it encompasses so much. I only know about Faulkner from the Market Wizard interview, but I suspect that bandler is far more subtle. Bandler works with the assumption that virtually everything is hypnosis because of the way in which language works. To put it another way, we basically live in hypnosis. One of his first books, "The Structure of Magic" explains how language works. It's not an easy read, but I find it fascinating. Basically, there are multiple layers of meaning to any sentence. There is surface structure and deep structure. Between, are the concepts of deletion, generalization and distortion. This accounts for the great ambiguity in language and explains why peoples representations (memory) of the same events can and will be very different.
By gaining rapport (through a specific pacing methodology) and then distracting the conscious mind with the surface structure of language, and speaking to the unconscious part of the mind with the deep structure, you can literally hypnotize someone in regular conversation without you even noticing.
Milton Erikson was renowned for this. Early on in his career, hypnosis was taboo (the AMA tried to oust him several times as he was an MD) so he "hid" his inductions in conversation. In one instance, a secretary complained of horrible migraines, and he couldn't overtly put her into a trance. So instead, he "dictated" to her. In minutes the migraine was gone.
Something I think important to point out is what exactly is a trance. It is nothing more than an altered state. By that definition, a mere change in emotion can be called a trance state. You do not need to be in a deep (somnambulistic) trance to benefit from hypnosis. Often, I will just start talking to myself in a suitable tone and tempo, and in a moment or two I will really be out of it. I find it a great way to relax/meditate or to block out unwanted but unavoidable nuisance like street noise.
I hope this helps a little. I'll certainly try to answer any questions. The more specific you can be, the better I'll be able to answer.
pabst, you're right, this is a difficult subject to explain because it encompasses so much. I only know about Faulkner from the Market Wizard interview, but I suspect that bandler is far more subtle. Bandler works with the assumption that virtually everything is hypnosis because of the way in which language works. To put it another way, we basically live in hypnosis. One of his first books, "The Structure of Magic" explains how language works. It's not an easy read, but I find it fascinating. Basically, there are multiple layers of meaning to any sentence. There is surface structure and deep structure. Between, are the concepts of deletion, generalization and distortion. This accounts for the great ambiguity in language and explains why peoples representations (memory) of the same events can and will be very different.
By gaining rapport (through a specific pacing methodology) and then distracting the conscious mind with the surface structure of language, and speaking to the unconscious part of the mind with the deep structure, you can literally hypnotize someone in regular conversation without you even noticing.
Milton Erikson was renowned for this. Early on in his career, hypnosis was taboo (the AMA tried to oust him several times as he was an MD) so he "hid" his inductions in conversation. In one instance, a secretary complained of horrible migraines, and he couldn't overtly put her into a trance. So instead, he "dictated" to her. In minutes the migraine was gone.
Something I think important to point out is what exactly is a trance. It is nothing more than an altered state. By that definition, a mere change in emotion can be called a trance state. You do not need to be in a deep (somnambulistic) trance to benefit from hypnosis. Often, I will just start talking to myself in a suitable tone and tempo, and in a moment or two I will really be out of it. I find it a great way to relax/meditate or to block out unwanted but unavoidable nuisance like street noise.
I hope this helps a little. I'll certainly try to answer any questions. The more specific you can be, the better I'll be able to answer.
marketsurfer,
Just noticed your previous post. Either I'm confused about the facts, or we have a simantic problem. I looked at your link and reread it carefully (I'm familiar with the site and know the people who run it). No where does it say anything about Robbins. Bandlers references about theft of intellectual property refer to the numerous people who set up shop, certifying practitioners, without permission from Bandler. I know he's been involved in numerous lawsuits. Bandler used to (as far as I know at this time he is not doing straight NLP training, he has moved on to newer, more advanced ideas) certify people in NLP as practitioners and trainers. Now, there is a very limited number of trainers that he personally approved that continue that part of his work. If that's what you mean by "license", then I agree. If not, I'm sincerely interested in what you know, mostly just curious.
For the record for those curious or interested, Tony Robbins attended some early Bandler seminars in the late 70's or early 80's. I think he also did some work in partnership with John Grinder (cofounder of NLP) with the US Army. Tony uses many NLP concepts in his teaching process, but he does NOT teach NLP. He has developed his own concepts are it is my opinion (at least for myself) that both men have a lot to offer. I've studied both sets of material in depth and I wouldn't want to be without either persons ideas and tools.
Just noticed your previous post. Either I'm confused about the facts, or we have a simantic problem. I looked at your link and reread it carefully (I'm familiar with the site and know the people who run it). No where does it say anything about Robbins. Bandlers references about theft of intellectual property refer to the numerous people who set up shop, certifying practitioners, without permission from Bandler. I know he's been involved in numerous lawsuits. Bandler used to (as far as I know at this time he is not doing straight NLP training, he has moved on to newer, more advanced ideas) certify people in NLP as practitioners and trainers. Now, there is a very limited number of trainers that he personally approved that continue that part of his work. If that's what you mean by "license", then I agree. If not, I'm sincerely interested in what you know, mostly just curious.
For the record for those curious or interested, Tony Robbins attended some early Bandler seminars in the late 70's or early 80's. I think he also did some work in partnership with John Grinder (cofounder of NLP) with the US Army. Tony uses many NLP concepts in his teaching process, but he does NOT teach NLP. He has developed his own concepts are it is my opinion (at least for myself) that both men have a lot to offer. I've studied both sets of material in depth and I wouldn't want to be without either persons ideas and tools.
One of the things my golf psychologist and I worked on was what to do when I hit a bad shot (make a loss).
When I encountered bad shots (losses), I usually became upset, and that would usually turn into a long distance throwing contest (more losses). So what we worked on was when I do hit a bad shot I would focus on my breathing. With every deep breath I take I tell myself everything is ok. I would visualize myself walking confident and being in control.
There's more to it, but basically relaxation and visualization helped me get back into the right frame of mind... but it didn't work all the time. Sometimes I said "*f@#k I'd rather be pissed"
So what are the things I did right, and what are the things I did wrong? What I'm trying to get at is, losses are like bad shots, so how can we learn to handle losses, or anything that disrupts our state of mind?
thanks,
Andy
When I encountered bad shots (losses), I usually became upset, and that would usually turn into a long distance throwing contest (more losses). So what we worked on was when I do hit a bad shot I would focus on my breathing. With every deep breath I take I tell myself everything is ok. I would visualize myself walking confident and being in control.
There's more to it, but basically relaxation and visualization helped me get back into the right frame of mind... but it didn't work all the time. Sometimes I said "*f@#k I'd rather be pissed"
So what are the things I did right, and what are the things I did wrong? What I'm trying to get at is, losses are like bad shots, so how can we learn to handle losses, or anything that disrupts our state of mind?
thanks,
Andy
First great thread. I've got into something close to this from speedreading books but not this extensively how words and perception works.
If would be great to get a list of books I can look for at a bookstore. I don't mind if the book is easy to read or not. Also, can you give me the top 3 books you'd recommend out of the list if there's more than 3 books you know of that you may want to mention.
Thanks in advance.
If would be great to get a list of books I can look for at a bookstore. I don't mind if the book is easy to read or not. Also, can you give me the top 3 books you'd recommend out of the list if there's more than 3 books you know of that you may want to mention.
Thanks in advance.