HR 1388 Welcome to Nazi America

Quote from Wallet:

Regardless of what fairy tale beliefs you like to hold on too, there ain't no fucking rules in a war other than kill the enemy until he surrenders or is eliminated.... you try to do this with every option available to you while trying to keep casualties on your side as low as possible.

If I can drop a cluster bomb, and save the life of my troops or make their job easier... then drop two!

You were not there, and I'd trust my commander in the field over any bleeding heart reporter.

Ask yourself why both sides Allies and Axis bombed cities during WWII.

When the enemy moves their operations within the confines of the population it leaves little recourse if you want to tale those enemy troops or positions out.

When the fight becomes intense, believe me the only people left are the ones your after.... the local residents are long gone.
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Well, I don't believe in fairytales either - that's for sure. I agree that this really is a question of principles: Are civilians legitimate targets in a war? The Geneva convention which the US is party of says no. Do you also agree that terrorism towards civilian targets is legitimate? Most do not. So yes, there are in fact rules of war - and if you've been a solider (I get that impression) it's your damn duty to know those rules.

Oh, but the civilian deaths are 'accidents', they're not the intended targets. Really? When you drop the bomb, you pretty much know what you're going to hit - at least that's the way it is nowadays.

So where would we have been without the London blitz, the Dresden bombings, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs... These were all targetted against civilians, of course. I think the days of international conventions after WW2 are past, as they're not respected anymore but states such as the USA. And, you've got militants/terrorists who doesn't respect it of course as well.

I agree that when enemies operate amongst civilians, you cannot escape that there will be civilian deaths as you still need to fight them down. However, your finaly point is not always right - sometimes the local population is held hostage and will be killed if they try to leave - look at some of the reports out of Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers.

And please, if civilian deaths are acceptable, don't cry about terrorism next time around. Was 9/11 a legitimate attack from Al-Qaida?
 
Quote from Kicking:

many countries have a mandatory civil service when they also have a military service.
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True... buy why do we need one NOW in the US?

Unless one is an Obamabot, it's easy to see the potential sinister implications... More "hobnail boot" than altruistic service.

I believe "service to one's country for all" is a good idea, but if it were to be done in the right way... should have been implemented while we still had a military draft. Not that everyone would to into the military, of course, but things like VISTA or service on a local scale.
 
Quote from 4XQs:

Well, I don't believe in fairytales either - that's for sure. I agree that this really is a question of principles: Are civilians legitimate targets in a war? The Geneva convention which the US is party of says no. Do you also agree that terrorism towards civilian targets is legitimate? Most do not. So yes, there are in fact rules of war - and if you've been a solider (I get that impression) it's your damn duty to know those rules.

Oh, but the civilian deaths are 'accidents', they're not the intended targets. Really? When you drop the bomb, you pretty much know what you're going to hit - at least that's the way it is nowadays.

So where would we have been without the London blitz, the Dresden bombings, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs... These were all targetted against civilians, of course. I think the days of international conventions after WW2 are past, as they're not respected anymore but states such as the USA. And, you've got militants/terrorists who doesn't respect it of course as well.

I agree that when enemies operate amongst civilians, you cannot escape that there will be civilian deaths as you still need to fight them down. However, your finaly point is not always right - sometimes the local population is held hostage and will be killed if they try to leave - look at some of the reports out of Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers.

And please, if civilian deaths are acceptable, don't cry about terrorism next time around. Was 9/11 a legitimate attack from Al-Qaida?
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It's also a violation of international law to use civilian shields or to deliberately locate military assets among civilians. They have learned only too well how t o exploit an international media that is quick to condemn Israel or the US for civilian deaths but takes those caused by terrorists in stride. Or even seeks to justify them as you apparently do with some bizarre moral equivalence argument.
 
Quote from peilthetraveler:

http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1388_txt.pdf

The whole bill is full of this shit, but in particular i wanted to write about this.

Specifically sec 6104 B 6

"Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and over
come civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds"

Basically, this is no different than the youth hitler nazis back in germany. If you read the whole bill you see they are employing old people too. Also This bill also takes away many of your freedoms.

This thing has already passed. I'm not quite ready to move out of the US, but the day I see one of these uniformed youth on the street, I am out of here. No way will I raise my kids up in a country like old nazi germany. When your kids turn 16, imagine they turn you in one day for saying something on elitetrader that questioned the way the government is running things and then you get sent to jail without a trial as an "enemy combatant" or "terrorist"(take your pick).

The government it seems is preparing itself for a revolt from the people. They seem to expect it with something like this. What end game are they preparing for? I dont know, but I will be safe out of this country when it happens.

Good luck to the rest of you.
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I think you're making way too much out of this. Youth service has been promoted by many administrations, Republican and Democratic alike.

If they have to wear militant uniforms, recite loyalty pledges, and are armed, I'll then be in agreement with you.

A bunch of kids from the inner city or suburbs, planting trees and cleaning parks, shouldn't worry anyone as much as it's stressing you.

This isn't exactly a jack-booted thug program.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

It's also a violation of international law to use civilian shields or to deliberately locate military assets among civilians. They have learned only too well how t o exploit an international media that is quick to condemn Israel or the US for civilian deaths but takes those caused by terrorists in stride. Or even seeks to justify them as you apparently do with some bizarre moral equivalence argument.
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Yes, you're absolutely right that civilian shields etc is a violation of international law - I tried to make that point as well. I'm also not trying to defend or justify terrorism - just for the record.
 
I think you're making way too much out of this. Youth service has been promoted by many administrations, Republican and Democratic alike.

If they have to wear militant uniforms, recite loyalty pledges, and are armed, I'll then be in agreement with you.

A bunch of kids from the inner city or suburbs, planting trees and cleaning parks, shouldn't worry anyone as much as it's stressing you.

This isn't exactly a jack-booted thug program.


It's not about trees and shrubs, it's about indoctrination with political religion, in this case multiculturalism. The exact same way that public schools do it.

reminds me of the young pioneers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneer_organization_of_the_Soviet_Union

Let's not teach kids critical thinking, let's make them into obedient govenment automatons.
 
But Mav88, the Constitution is a political document - so you can't teach (or indoctrinate) that? Are you also skeptical to the idea of a school system?
 
Public schools do not teach critical thinking, they train obedient little worker bees. Someone will teach their new PC version of their interpretation of the constitution. Example, I bet they would teach that health care is a right.
 
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