No, not really. It's because the EU has a $49B trade deficit with China - not a $470B trade deficit.
How Xi Jinping's colleagues rejected an 'unequal' trade deal
- Thread starter srinir
- Start date
No, not really. It's because the EU has a $49B trade deficit with China - not a $470B trade deficit.
Well that's still quite large of a deficit given the size of EU's economy vs. US. It's so funny that China would consider a trade deal as "unequal" whenever the West has no deficit against China. It's only when the West has imported (and still is) more from China than exporting, literally handing money to China then China would consider it as "equal trade deal". LOL
You aren't getting it. The US has in fact alienated everyone; you can see it in Canada which had a fairly good relationship not too long ago but now the US isn't considered to be a good partner or to be trusted at all. Those of you were cheering when the ridiculous Trump trade war on Canada started might want to note absolutely nothing good came of it and Canada is now firmly saying dump the steel tariffs or we aren't doing the new NAFTA deal at all. Trump's war with China has highlighted he can't really fight it well without allies. I suppose he can but it means legit direct cost to American consumers and possibly a sharp downtrend in corporate profits that will hurt the stock market and some employees.
Here's an observation I have as well. This constant cry from Americans that the trade deficit itself is a problem. It isn't. Trade benefits both parties regardless of who paid the cash. If you have a large consumer market and large cash available, it is a totally natural thing for huge trade deficits to exist. The deficit itself is not a problem, and those who keep harping on this aren't understanding trade and why it exists. Theft of intellectual property and artificial barriers to trade in a country are legit issues. However, it is impossible to take Trump and some of his supporters seriously on this if there is a constant barrage of bs rhetoric. For example, all the whining about how Canada was "taking advantage" of the US was ridiculous and stupid. For god's sake we run a small trade deficit with the US and you don't see us complaining about it. Likewise, obsessing about the trade deficit with China isn't productive. Nobody forces Americans to buy Chinese products; if American locations provide the same it would already happen. Slapping large tariffs on such business is basically saying Americans aren't smart enough to buy American and the government has to interfere with the free market to force them to consider alternatives. It's never worked in the past on a broad scale and it was a disaster in the Great Depression. If that's what you end up doing, enjoy your new taxes and good luck with that it'll certainly be disruptive.
Last edited:
Agreed. It’s only about “Trump” for many.
I disagree on the fact that Xi is tied by the will of other party officials. The man is the equivalent of the ancient emperor, he could force the deal if he really was committed. The problem here is that both men need to be able to claim victory to their respective audiences.
We humans have evolved, we invented the wheel, the engine, gunpowder and the internet, but in the end we are still the same apes trying to assess whos the biggest guy in the room.
We humans have evolved, we invented the wheel, the engine, gunpowder and the internet, but in the end we are still the same apes trying to assess whos the biggest guy in the room.
If US Companies were afforded the same property rights and protections in China as a Chinese Company presently enjoys in the United States - there wouldn't be an issue IMO. Any Chinese Company doing business in America is afforded the same legal protections and redress in US Courts as an American Company.
And by the way, the EU has filed a monster case against China in the WTO regarding Intellectual Property theft and forced technology transfer for EU Companies doing business in China (amended and expanded in December, 2018). Unfortunately, China has a very mixed track record with respect to honoring and enforcing by law WTO rulings and regulations. The US filed an almost identical complaint earlier than the EU - but of course the US has no faith that China will legally enforce a WTO ruling on IP.
If China imported $200B worth of US goods to partially offset the ~$470B trade surplus they have enjoyed for many years - there wouldn't be a problem.
Last edited:
@bone
I'm not discussing the merits of the dispute, in fact the situation in China has been like a festering wound for so many years, sooner or later somebody had to notice the stench.
What I say however is that at this point, the matter already shifted from the economic realm to the political one.
As a political leader, even if you suddenly realize that your position is wrong, once you put your face in it you are never going to back down. De-escalating from here will be a mess.
I'm not discussing the merits of the dispute, in fact the situation in China has been like a festering wound for so many years, sooner or later somebody had to notice the stench.
What I say however is that at this point, the matter already shifted from the economic realm to the political one.
As a political leader, even if you suddenly realize that your position is wrong, once you put your face in it you are never going to back down. De-escalating from here will be a mess.
Well US has always maintained it as an economic one, even on the issue of IP theft, it's still an economic one as IP theft has serious and grave economic impact on the victim companies but China has always regarded these trade issues as a political one right from the start, taking things personal hoping to use the political angle or even historical one to somehow "win" this war. If de-escalations is needed, it's China who needs to de-escalate it and if they know they won't be able to de-escalate a situation once it's escalated, then they shouldn't have let it escalate in the first place.
Well, given the monster case that the EU filed with the WTO against China, Mean Orange Man or not this issue is not going to get resolved with China going about business as usual.