How would you fix the health care problem in the US?

[Angrycat]

Quote from wolfab82:

good point. Who will control and license doctors if not the AMA?

Isnt that the same as kill all the lawyers and burn all the schools?

Nice idea, but not practical. Too many corrupt idiots in law school and medicine.

Cutting back on the AMA is a good idea though Angrycat.

I don't mean we have to get rid of certification for doctors. I mean that the AMA should not be the monopoly on that certification.

The AMA doesn't actually control doctors and licensing by the AMA doesn't mean that the doctor is competent either. I've been to witch doctors more competent than some physicians. And in the end, I am very careful to choose a doctor because he is recommended than because the AMA licensed him because I know this is a problem.

With competing certifiers, each certifying body will have to prove that their certification is the most meaningful and that means they will have incentive to not just certify every buffoon who graduates medical school but to check his competency too.

The AMA's monopoly on licensing serves ONLY to limit the number of doctors and raise the cost to patients - as happens when supply is artificially limited.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from countryBoy:

The fact that these people want to enact laws to change health care (> 15% of the economy) in a matter of weeks indicates, to even the most dim-witted, there is massive skulduggery afoot.

Stay tuned.

THAT is true.

This is YOUR health we're talking about here. This is OUR government. They work for us.

How can we allow them to pass a 1,000 page bill that nobody has had time to read?

ESPECIALLY when this thing is so awesome that congress exempted its own members from the program entirely and stayed with its existing private healthcare.

If this bill will make healthcare so much cheaper AND better, why don't they want in?

There are a lot of problems with the system today. But, hastily imposing a sweeping piece of poorly thought out of legislation because it's politically expedient for the president is unconscionable.

 

[wolfab82]

Quote from Angrycat:

I don't mean we have to get rid of certification for doctors. I mean that the AMA should not be the monopoly on that certification.

The AMA doesn't actually control doctors and licensing by the AMA doesn't mean that the doctor is competent either. I've been to witch doctors more competent than some physicians. And in the end, I am very careful to choose a doctor because he is recommended than because the AMA licensed him because I know this is a problem.

With competing certifiers, each certifying body will have to prove that their certification is the most meaningful and that means they will have incentive to not just certify every buffoon who graduates medical school but to check his competency too.

The AMA's monopoly on licensing serves ONLY to limit the number of doctors and raise the cost to patients - as happens when supply is artificially limited.

Good point. This is how cartels work my friend.

And about your most recent post. Since when do politicians work for us?

We The People is not US, not grammatically or legally speaking. Herein lies the trick of the constitution...wink wink. Ha.

 

[hayman]

The key is to let doctors get back to doctoring, and getting ridding of the middle men: the insurance companies, the HMO's, etc. These middlemen, who flourished under the Bush Administration due to decreased regulation, are the single source of why costs have gone through the roof.

It will be very hard to fix this incredibly broken system. We must eradicate the power that these middlemen have been given during the Bush "gold rush".

Since we are the only industrialized nation not to have a socialized plan, we need a government-subsidized system that will streamline the patient <-> doctor/hospital relationship, and govern costs that do NOT push doctors out of the business. There is enough profit for them available, if we remove the insurance companies from the equation.

By the way, I really doubt anything tangible will come out of the currently proposed plan. My family coverage went from $ 650/month to $ 1,200/month under Bush, and my deductibles have risen to the maximum permittable. Although I understand that Obama wants to cover those without health insurance, any plan of his better include some relieft for this poster here in NY.

 

[wolfab82]

Quote from countryBoy:

How much do Asian MDs pay for malpractice insurance? How much do they spend on redundant tests and procedures to protect against lawsuits?

The problem in the U.S. is not the Health Care system. The problem is the Legal system.

Are you a doctor? Thank God for our legal shitty system that at least keeps these arrogant Quacks in CHECK!

My stepmother got a tube stuck into her pancreas by a greedy doctor who could have prescribed a chemical compound to dilute her ailment. Instead, since she had insurance he advocated the more expensive procedure and lacerated her inner organs.

Quacks are also in league with automobile insurance and stiff hard working people out of their claims by discrediting their personal injury lawsuits.

Why the hell should Quacks and good Doctors be immune to penalty for effing up?

Are they Gods?

If they did not mess up, they would not get sued. It goes like this for ALL OF US.

IF I BOTCH A TASK, I GET SUED. SIMPLE!

Arrogance is a serious problem in this country. Just because you wear 300 dollar glasses and memorized your Chemistry and Biology books does not make you a good doctor.

How about you cure people and stop working for big Pharma instead? Then maybe we can talk about being lighter legally on these doofuses.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from spinn:

I hope your friend is as good at football as he is at being an idiot.

A jury of DRs in a malpractice trial judging a DR....are you freaking kidding me? Lets put 12 OJ Simpsons on every murder trial too?

DRs know how to cure people, they just dont do it in many circumstances.

Maybe if DRs stopped committing malpractice they wouldnt get sued?

Good point.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from wolfab82:

Are you a doctor? Thank God for our legal shitty system that at least keeps these arrogant Quacks in CHECK!

My stepmother got a tube stuck into her pancreas by a greedy doctor who could have prescribed a chemical compound to dilute her ailment. Instead, since she had insurance he advocated the more expensive procedure and lacerated her inner organs.

Quacks are also in league with automobile insurance and stiff hard working people out of their claims by discrediting their personal injury lawsuits.

Why the hell should Quacks and good Doctors be immune to penalty for effing up?

Are they Gods?

If they did not mess up, they would not get sued. It goes like this for ALL OF US.

IF I BOTCH A TASK, I GET SUED. SIMPLE!

Arrogance is a serious problem in this country. Just because you wear 300 dollar glasses and memorized your Chemistry and Biology books does not make you a good doctor.

How about you cure people and stop working for big Pharma instead? Then maybe we can talk about being lighter legally on these doofuses.

This is the problem with single-payer and third party payer systems.

If someone else is paying for it, you can't shop around. If you're forced into a doctor network, you can't shop around.

If you can't shop around, you get inefficiencies. It creates a monopoly and monopolies are all about excess profit.

Insurance companies should REQUIRE at least three different opinions for procedures before they pay. Of course they don't care because government regulators will always write in some sort of regulation which allows them to jack up premiums and kill competition.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from wolfab82:

Good point. This is how cartels work my friend.

And about your most recent post. Since when do politicians work for us?

We The People is not US, not grammatically or legally speaking. Herein lies the trick of the constitution...wink wink. Ha.

I understand and I completely agree with you. Believe me, I'm familiar with Public Choice Theory. But, applying pressure and threatening their cushy lifestyle of bribe collection is the only option we have.

Otherwise, we are resigned to becoming serfs to the Lords in congress. If they don't feel the heat, they truly believe they can do ANYTHING they want to us. We at least owe it to ourselves to fight for our liberty.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from hayman:

The key is to let doctors get back to doctoring, and getting ridding of the middle men: the insurance companies, the HMO's, etc. These middlemen, who flourished under the Bush Administration due to decreased regulation, are the single source of why costs have gone through the roof.

It will be very hard to fix this incredibly broken system. We must eradicate the power that these middlemen have been given during the Bush "gold rush".

Since we are the only industrialized nation not to have a socialized plan, we need a government-subsidized system that will streamline the patient <-> doctor/hospital relationship, and govern costs that do NOT push doctors out of the business. There is enough profit for them available, if we remove the insurance companies from the equation.

By the way, I really doubt anything tangible will come out of the currently proposed plan. My family coverage went from $ 650/month to $ 1,200/month under Bush, and my deductibles have risen to the maximum permittable. Although I understand that Obama wants to cover those without health insurance, any plan of his better include some relieft for this poster here in NY.

hayman,

Although I would dearly love to blame Bush (I really really hate the guy), your insurance premiums are not his fault.

Insurance is regulated at the state level. NY is chock full of mandates. Insurance companies MUST cover everything from acne to acupuncture and are prohibited from selling insurance that doesn't cover this crap.

Moreover, insurance companies in NY aren't allowed to exclude anyone with a pre-existing condition. So, the guy down the street may not bother to buy coverage (even though he could always afford it) until he develops diabetes and then pays the same rate as you. You end up paying for him AND you. Thank your state legislators for that.

Connecticut has no such mandates. I payed $1200 for two uber healthy adults in NY. I pay $427 for the same (now older) adults for the same coverage in Connecticut. If you were allowed to buy insurance from connecticut, you would be fine. That's the kind of insurance competition that will lower costs and give consumers choice

European countries are NOT happy with their single-payer options. All of those countries have moved toward privatization. So, when asked about their healthcare, they answer that they're happy. but that's because they have choices that this legislation is seeking to take from everyone but the very wealthy - those who can pay out of pocket for any procedure they want. For the very poor or people who fall on hard times, publicly funded healthcare is the only option, but for the rest of us, the private market should be opened to competition to bring down premiums and reduce cost.

 

[pismo10]

Get the govt out of subsidizing healthcare, let market forces prevail again and costs will stop spiraling. The more money the govt pours in the more costs go up...