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How would you fix the health care problem in the US?
- Thread starter Eliot Hosewater
- Start date
Quote from obama-lama:
Before the ENTIRE system can be overhauled, data storage and billing technologies MUST be upgraded and implemented.
This small (and inexpensive, relatively speaking) step by itself would save 10's of billions of dollars of waste and fraud, and becomes the backbone of whatever new, improved, and streamlined overhaul of the entire system.
Quote from TraderZones:
even the doctors have debunked this idea.
WOW! I would've never guessed.
Why in the world would "the doctors" debunk or not like the idea?
A Doctor I know posted this on a football board I go to.
"1.) Malpractice: Get it out of the courts. It's easy for a smooth-talking lawyer to convince 12 laypeople that a doctor should have done this, or shouldn't have done that, etc etc. Medicine isn't as black-and-white as people would like to think. I'd like to see a panel of physicians make the rulings in malpractice cases, and keep the lawyers out of it. And the fines for doctors found guilty should be equal to future healthcare costs for injuries directly related to the malpractice + lost wages. No more punitive damages in the millions.
2.) End the practice of employer paid health insurance. It is in the employer's best interest to pay as little for health coverage as they can get away with. It is in the employee's best interest to get the best health coverage they can get. These two interests are rarely both met. Employees should go out and buy their own policy, if they want to, and find the best coverage for the best price.
3.) End the practice of ERs treating everybody, regardless of their ability to pay. In today's society, anyone who comes into the ER for treatment SHOULD be able to pay. Over 65? You're covered by medicare. Can't afford health insurance? You're covered by medicaid. Can afford health insurance but didn't buy any? That's your own damn fault.
If you don't have health insurance, but you can afford it, and you can't get medicaid during your hospital stay, you're damn well going to pay the bill. No more free rides if you decide not to pay it.
4.) Change the way new doctors are taught in medical school. In most medical schools, medical students are taught to approach patients in a very inefficient way: ask every question you can think of concerning the present complaint, past medical history, family history, etc etc, and get a lot of irrelevant information. Then, do a complete physical exam, descibing everything you hear/see/feel with no less than 5 adjectives. Finally, create a list of 10 possible diagnoses, regardless of how likely they are, and order any and all tests to work up every single possibility."
"1.) Malpractice: Get it out of the courts. It's easy for a smooth-talking lawyer to convince 12 laypeople that a doctor should have done this, or shouldn't have done that, etc etc. Medicine isn't as black-and-white as people would like to think. I'd like to see a panel of physicians make the rulings in malpractice cases, and keep the lawyers out of it. And the fines for doctors found guilty should be equal to future healthcare costs for injuries directly related to the malpractice + lost wages. No more punitive damages in the millions.
2.) End the practice of employer paid health insurance. It is in the employer's best interest to pay as little for health coverage as they can get away with. It is in the employee's best interest to get the best health coverage they can get. These two interests are rarely both met. Employees should go out and buy their own policy, if they want to, and find the best coverage for the best price.
3.) End the practice of ERs treating everybody, regardless of their ability to pay. In today's society, anyone who comes into the ER for treatment SHOULD be able to pay. Over 65? You're covered by medicare. Can't afford health insurance? You're covered by medicaid. Can afford health insurance but didn't buy any? That's your own damn fault.
If you don't have health insurance, but you can afford it, and you can't get medicaid during your hospital stay, you're damn well going to pay the bill. No more free rides if you decide not to pay it.
4.) Change the way new doctors are taught in medical school. In most medical schools, medical students are taught to approach patients in a very inefficient way: ask every question you can think of concerning the present complaint, past medical history, family history, etc etc, and get a lot of irrelevant information. Then, do a complete physical exam, descibing everything you hear/see/feel with no less than 5 adjectives. Finally, create a list of 10 possible diagnoses, regardless of how likely they are, and order any and all tests to work up every single possibility."
Quote from jficquette:
A Doctor I know posted this on a football board I go to.
"1.) Malpractice: Get it out of the courts. It's easy for a smooth-talking lawyer to convince 12 laypeople that a doctor should have done this, or shouldn't have done that, etc etc. Medicine isn't as black-and-white as people would like to think. I'd like to see a panel of physicians make the rulings in malpractice cases, and keep the lawyers out of it. And the fines for doctors found guilty should be equal to future healthcare costs for injuries directly related to the malpractice + lost wages. No more punitive damages in the millions.
2.) End the practice of employer paid health insurance. It is in the employer's best interest to pay as little for health coverage as they can get away with. It is in the employee's best interest to get the best health coverage they can get. These two interests are rarely both met. Employees should go out and buy their own policy, if they want to, and find the best coverage for the best price.
3.) End the practice of ERs treating everybody, regardless of their ability to pay. In today's society, anyone who comes into the ER for treatment SHOULD be able to pay. Over 65? You're covered by medicare. Can't afford health insurance? You're covered by medicaid. Can afford health insurance but didn't buy any? That's your own damn fault.
If you don't have health insurance, but you can afford it, and you can't get medicaid during your hospital stay, you're damn well going to pay the bill. No more free rides if you decide not to pay it.
4.) Change the way new doctors are taught in medical school. In most medical schools, medical students are taught to approach patients in a very inefficient way: ask every question you can think of concerning the present complaint, past medical history, family history, etc etc, and get a lot of irrelevant information. Then, do a complete physical exam, descibing everything you hear/see/feel with no less than 5 adjectives. Finally, create a list of 10 possible diagnoses, regardless of how likely they are, and order any and all tests to work up every single possibility."
I hope your friend is as good at football as he is at being an idiot.
A jury of DRs in a malpractice trial judging a DR....are you freaking kidding me? Lets put 12 OJ Simpsons on every murder trial too?
DRs know how to cure people, they just dont do it in many circumstances.
Maybe if DRs stopped committing malpractice they wouldnt get sued?
Complete nationalization is the best solution, hands down. The problem here is that Americans collectively have no first-hand experience with any other system than the one currently in place, and their views are warped by an insidious campaign of misinformation by vested interests.
Be clear. VESTED INTERESTS IN THE STATUS QUO ARE ARE PIGS AT THE TROUGH, and they are fighting.
We know that hospital organizations, health care companies, insurance companies, drug companies, BUY DOCTORS AND ACADEMICS to fabricate studies and opinion pieces. The stuff Americans are hearing in the media and debates are f*cking nonsense. Listening to Americans debate their own health care system is so sad in that regard - like being forced to watch a nation drive itself off a cliff.
As an American expat for over a decade I can tell you: You can get better care, cheaper in some surprising places - almost EVERY north Asian and South Asian country offers quality health care at half the cost, or much much less. And no, it is not labor costs or legal savings. It is the common-sense government hand in providing a rational health care system.
Be clear. VESTED INTERESTS IN THE STATUS QUO ARE ARE PIGS AT THE TROUGH, and they are fighting.
We know that hospital organizations, health care companies, insurance companies, drug companies, BUY DOCTORS AND ACADEMICS to fabricate studies and opinion pieces. The stuff Americans are hearing in the media and debates are f*cking nonsense. Listening to Americans debate their own health care system is so sad in that regard - like being forced to watch a nation drive itself off a cliff.
As an American expat for over a decade I can tell you: You can get better care, cheaper in some surprising places - almost EVERY north Asian and South Asian country offers quality health care at half the cost, or much much less. And no, it is not labor costs or legal savings. It is the common-sense government hand in providing a rational health care system.
Mix of private and public coverage with the patient getting to pay the least....I unlike many others on here I believe that basic healthcare is a right and a governements obligation...The states should cover med school and put caps on public sector salaries for doctors etc...if the doctors want more money, they would be allowed to open or work at a private practice and set their own rates.
I have watched my aunt and my grandmother both die of lung cancer when I was a teen.This was in France and never they had to worry about bills.
Then I watched my dad fight with cancer (still undergoing chemo as I write this) in the good old USA and get bill after bill from the hospital, and fighting back and forth with the insurance company that was trying to find every single loophole to deny coverage.Finally after EIGHTEEN months of this nonsense the insurance company gave up and started paying....We're talking $6500 every visit for an IV and a checkup that these motherfuckers were charging....
So to all the naysayers and all the people knocking "socialism" and French style healthcare, wait until you get sick.Wait until you lose your life savings, your home or your life because you're being refused coverage and/or proper care....For fuck's sake, why are we even voting???What's the role of the governement?Take care of its people would seem to be the logical answer?Nah....
Want to compare US vs France healthcare?
Send me a PM and I will provide page upon page of numbers, stats and studies that clearly prove what system is best and less costly...
But again, even faced with a clear proof, someone will still pop up and say French healthcare is shit....It's not perfect, it has some issues, but I still liked being able to pay $35.00 for a root canal.Not $900.00
There are reasons why french healthcare is number one and the us is at 37th in the world.
Some will say that people smoke, that people are obese etc....They're still people...and we as society should take care of them just as the future generation should take care of us when we get sick...
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm
I have watched my aunt and my grandmother both die of lung cancer when I was a teen.This was in France and never they had to worry about bills.
Then I watched my dad fight with cancer (still undergoing chemo as I write this) in the good old USA and get bill after bill from the hospital, and fighting back and forth with the insurance company that was trying to find every single loophole to deny coverage.Finally after EIGHTEEN months of this nonsense the insurance company gave up and started paying....We're talking $6500 every visit for an IV and a checkup that these motherfuckers were charging....
So to all the naysayers and all the people knocking "socialism" and French style healthcare, wait until you get sick.Wait until you lose your life savings, your home or your life because you're being refused coverage and/or proper care....For fuck's sake, why are we even voting???What's the role of the governement?Take care of its people would seem to be the logical answer?Nah....
Want to compare US vs France healthcare?
Send me a PM and I will provide page upon page of numbers, stats and studies that clearly prove what system is best and less costly...
But again, even faced with a clear proof, someone will still pop up and say French healthcare is shit....It's not perfect, it has some issues, but I still liked being able to pay $35.00 for a root canal.Not $900.00
There are reasons why french healthcare is number one and the us is at 37th in the world.
Some will say that people smoke, that people are obese etc....They're still people...and we as society should take care of them just as the future generation should take care of us when we get sick...
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm
BartS
Good point. I think someone else in another discussion mentioned that like 15-20% of bankruptcy filings are caused by unaffordable medical bills. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense.
Good point. I think someone else in another discussion mentioned that like 15-20% of bankruptcy filings are caused by unaffordable medical bills. I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense.
Quote from bigpig41:
How about another novel idea: STOP THE FOOLISH SPENDING IN THE HOSPITALS ACROSS THIS NATION THAT COMES DOWN FROM THE HOSPITAL CORP. HEADS
Example: Get RID of foolish wastes of money like a drug dispensing system found in nearly every hospital in the United States called the PIXIS system......a huge computer with like two big toolbox drawyers that require computer entries to dispense drugs>>these setups all over the hospital....like 40 of them . SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS for every hospital and does NOTHIN to better patient care. Actually slows patient care. Some would argue that it prevents theft of drugs>>>>B.S. Michael Jackson had enough anesthesia drugs at his house to have anesthetized himself for heart surgery(had propofol and massive doses of narcotics) . We spend millions for this system but if it were to say help catch the anesthesiologist/pharmicist/or nurse stealing/abusing the drugs it contains>>>then they can be right back out on the streets in six months practicing again if they say they or sorry and will go to rehab. program. Waste millions on this system to detect a crime and then if you do detect a crime do nothin basically about it. Just like why spend millions on cameras on our interstates when you catch the tenager doin 170 on his crotch rocket and you KNOW that later in life he will still have his drivers license.
Hospital waste is most definitely a contributor to high cost. In my town the hospitals have so much money that they operate there own greenhouses, have adopted whole sections of city streets to plant and maintain, publish magazines, put up big billboards, and like a cancer are constantly expanding, though both hospitals here have many empty beds. Lots of unnecessry frills in both hospitals. It never would occur to them to cut out this crap and reduce rates.
I am in agreement with this... It's not like there aren't examples that work better.Quote from Sell 'em:
Complete nationalization is the best solution, hands down. The problem here is that Americans collectively have no first-hand experience with any other system than the one currently in place, and their views are warped by an insidious campaign of misinformation by vested interests.
Be clear. VESTED INTERESTS IN THE STATUS QUO ARE ARE PIGS AT THE TROUGH, and they are fighting.
We know that hospital organizations, health care companies, insurance companies, drug companies, BUY DOCTORS AND ACADEMICS to fabricate studies and opinion pieces. The stuff Americans are hearing in the media and debates are f*cking nonsense. Listening to Americans debate their own health care system is so sad in that regard - like being forced to watch a nation drive itself off a cliff.
As an American expat for over a decade I can tell you: You can get better care, cheaper in some surprising places - almost EVERY north Asian and South Asian country offers quality health care at half the cost, or much much less. And no, it is not labor costs or legal savings. It is the common-sense government hand in providing a rational health care system.
Fundamentally, I think the problem is that we don't yet know how to make public-private partnerships work, so any such hybrid system is doomed to failure. Therefore, there are only two options. Either you believe healthcare is a public good, in which case it needs to be fully nationalized and fully run by the govt (like the European systems and the UK NHS). Otherwise, if you believe healthcare is a private concern of every individual, the govt should not be involved at all and no social healthcare programs should exist whatsoever.
My Z$2c...
Quote from Sell 'em:
As an American expat for over a decade I can tell you: You can get better care, cheaper in some surprising places - almost EVERY north Asian and South Asian country offers quality health care at half the cost, or much much less. And no, it is not labor costs or legal savings. It is the common-sense government hand in providing a rational health care system.
How much do Asian MDs pay for malpractice insurance? How much do they spend on redundant tests and procedures to protect against lawsuits?
The problem in the U.S. is not the Health Care system. The problem is the Legal system.