Not hasslin ya. Simply explaining. Not sure if you have cable TV across the pond but not sure where you are getting this optimism from. We had more protests in every major city for nights on end declaring the end of the world is near. Yes, "some" are optimistic. You are not doing a terribly good job of reading the tea leaves over here. This is a very divided country. There are a lot of factions over here on both political sides that are irate. The happy ones or "optimistic" ones as you call them are the same ones that are always optimistic, the asset holders. New highs everyday will have that affect on you.
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How would infrastructure spending benefit the working class?
- Thread starter drcha
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Not hasslin ya. Simply explaining. Not sure if you have cable TV across the pond but not sure where you are getting this optimism from. We had more protests in every major city for nights on end declaring the end of the world is near. Yes, "some" are optimistic. You are not doing a terribly good job of reading the tea leaves over here. This is a very divided country. There are a lot of factions over here on both political sides that are irate. The happy ones or "optimistic" ones as you call them are the same ones that are always optimistic, the asset holders. New highs everyday will have that affect on you.
No, sorry... What exactly is the significance you perceive in the use of "going to" instead of "need to"?
I'll offer a stab at this. For years and years, BOTH the right and the left talk about what they are going to DO. It always sounds pretty and encouraging, the kind of stuff you might see on a Halmark card. The kind of things that make you want to hold hands with a stranger in public and smile as the birds chirp nearby in agreement. Then of course nothing is done.
Trump, whether you agree with him or not, he will do things. Not because they even should be done, he will just do things because that is what people in business have to do everyday. Workers work and politicians bloviate. The irony of course, while many "bad" things will be done, the very fact that he will be swinging at pitches vs taking strikes means he might actually get a few hits. We might just randomly shake up the natural order of things in such a way that nature will normalize and change might actually happen. Not because it was "part of the plan" but because the status quo was disrupted. The double irony here is that sheer narcissism of this President Elect will probably drive more change then the smugness of the last one.
Nah, we here in the Ole Blighty are still using carrier pigeons to spread the news, rather than all these high-falutin' cable whatchamacallits.Not hasslin ya. Simply explaining. Not sure if you have cable TV across the pond but not sure where you are getting this optimism from. We had more protests in every major city for nights on end declaring the end of the world is near. Yes, "some" are optimistic. You are not doing a terribly good job of reading the tea leaves over here. This is a very divided country. There are a lot of factions over here on both political sides that are irate. The happy ones or "optimistic" ones as you call them are the same ones that are always optimistic, the asset holders. New highs everyday will have that affect on you.
As to the optimism, sure, I could be reading the tea leaves all wrong. I suppose that's likely to be the case, given the bias of the community that I am immersed in.
Right, so I do have a bit of a problem with both parts of this statement.I'll offer a stab at this. For years and years, BOTH the right and the left talk about what they are going to DO. It always sounds pretty and encouraging, the kind of stuff you might see on a Halmark card. The kind of things that make you want to hold hands with a stranger in public and smile as the birds chirp nearby in agreement. Then of course nothing is done.
Trump, whether you agree with him or not, he will do things. Not because they even should be done, he will just do things because that is what people in business have to do everyday. Workers work and politicians bloviate. The irony of course, while many "bad" things will be done, the very fact that he will be swinging at pitches vs taking strikes means he might actually get a few hits. We might just randomly shake up the natural order of things in such a way that nature will normalize and change might actually happen. Not because it was "part of the plan" but because the status quo was disrupted. The double irony here is that sheer narcissism of this President Elect will probably drive more change then the smugness of the last one.
Without passing judgments, hadn't the recent years been characterized by some relatively significant stuff happening? I mean Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, regime change in a lot of hot sandy places, etc
As to Trump, I suppose my confusion stems from this meme that "Trump will do things". Looking at it dispassionately, all I know at this point is that half of the things Trump has said that he will do (or won't), he didn't really mean to do (or not do) in the first place. So while I certainly see the possibility that things will transpire the way you describe, I am not sure I would consider it my central scenario.
Time will tell, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
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Without passing judgments, hadn't the recent years been characterized by some relatively significant stuff happening? I mean Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, regime change in a lot of hot sandy places, etc
Now we're getting somewhere. This is the point I want to focus on because it's where the conversation almost always breaks down and why nobody in the media could understand how Trump won. Let's address those items one at a time, only lets look at them through the lens of middle America and not some billion dollar hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT that doesn't understand what all the bickering is about, everything looks dandy from his estate window.
Obamacare: This helped almost NO ONE. Not even the poor. Many of the poor who had de facto single payer healthcare were thrown off medicaid and given essentially a gov't sponsored HMO plan. They were given "access" to health insurance. Some had subsidies to pay for the premiums but the doughnut hole was on them. For most of middle america they saw their health insurance double or triple in cost. Again, the hedge fund manager in CT sees this as trivial and people should just pay up and stop complaining.
Dodd_Frank: How exactly did this help middle class workers in Ohio? Oh yeah it didn't. In fact, it did very little except raise the cost of doing business. Not to worry, the hedge fund manager in CT just moved his fund offshore and fired his US staff. In fact, most banks let go of employees, shut down their trading desks, forced people out of work and added onerous fees on financial transactions that we all have to pay for to offset the higher regulation cost.
Regime Change: Ahh yes, the middle class loves this one. Sending their poor kids who they can no longer afford to send to state university and instead force them into the "corp". They get the privilege of losing their limbs in the middle east so the hedge fund manager, who still doesn't get what all the damn bikering is about as his oil trades are making him a killing. Where are his kids? Not in the service. They are in Georgetown getting a masters in Public Policy at 500k a pop so upon graduation hedge fund daddy can ask some favors from his high net worth clients to pull some strings on Capitol Hill to get hedge fund daddy's kid a job in the Senators office. He does feel bad of course that your kid from Ohio didn't make it make back from Syria. He shows his condolences by wearing a US lapel on his polo shirt around the hedge fund office in Stamford. You see, he really does care.
Marty this is what you might not be getting. None of these policies, none of these actions are helping a majority of the people in this country. Yes, stocks are at the highs, real estate in New Canaan, CT is holding at the highs and for people on the coasts life is swell. For a majority of this country they get to hear lectures on racism, xenophobia, bigotry and told that the most important issue of the day is transgender bathroom rights.
And one last time, the hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT just doesn't understand what all this complaining is about. He's never been richer. Everything looks swell. Guess what, good news, his kid did get that job on Capitol Hill. See, everyone wins.
Now we're getting somewhere. This is the point I want to focus on because it's where the conversation almost always breaks down and why nobody in the media could understand how Trump won. Let's address those items one at a time, only lets look at them through the lens of middle America and not some billion dollar hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT that doesn't understand what all the bickering is about, everything looks dandy from his estate window.
Obamacare: This helped almost NO ONE. Not even the poor. Many of the poor who had de facto single payer healthcare were thrown off medicaid and given essentially a gov't sponsored HMO plan. They were given "access" to health insurance. Some had subsidies to pay for the premiums but the doughnut hole was on them. For most of middle america they saw their health insurance double or triple in cost. Again, the hedge fund manager in CT sees this as trivial and people should just pay up and stop complaining.
Dodd_Frank: How exactly did this help middle class workers in Ohio? Oh yeah it didn't. In fact, it did very little except raise the cost of doing business. Not to worry, the hedge fund manager in CT just moved his fund offshore and fired his US staff. In fact, most banks let go of employees, shut down their trading desks, forced people out of work and added onerous fees on financial transactions that we all have to pay for to offset the higher regulation cost.
Regime Change: Ahh yes, the middle class loves this one. Sending their poor kids who they can no longer afford to send to state university and instead force them into the "corp". They get the privilege of losing their limbs in the middle east so the hedge fund manager, who still doesn't get what all the damn bikering is about as his oil trades are making him a killing. Where are his kids? Not in the service. They are in Georgetown getting a masters in Public Policy at 500k a pop so upon graduation hedge fund daddy can ask some favors from his high net worth clients to pull some strings on Capitol Hill to get hedge fund daddy's kid a job in the Senators office. He does feel bad of course that your kid from Ohio didn't make it make back from Syria. He shows his condolences by wearing a US lapel on his polo shirt around the hedge fund office in Stamford. You see, he really does care.
Marty this is what you might not be getting. None of these policies, none of these actions are helping a majority of the people in this country. Yes, stocks are at the highs, real estate in New Canaan, CT is holding at the highs and for people on the coasts life is swell. For a majority of this country they get to hear lectures on racism, xenophobia, bigotry and told that the most important issue of the day is transgender bathroom rights.
And one last time, the hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT just doesn't understand what all this complaining is about. He's never been richer. Everything looks swell. Guess what, good news, his kid did get that job on Capitol Hill. See, everyone wins.
This election wasn't about the majority. It was about the minority whose votes happend to be more valuable.
Secondly pretty much all of trumps economic advisors are guys with homes within 30 minutes of New Canaan and some of them actually run multi billion dollar hedge funds. So how likely is it that these guys get what you are saying?
This election was not about policy. Trump wanted to run and he hired a data analytics firm who figured out the demographic to target and he tailored his language to that. You are already seeing him change his tune on many topics.
The reality is no one knows what to expect from this administration - Trump himself probably doesn't even know.
This election wasn't about the majority. It was about the minority whose votes happend to be more valuable.
Secondly pretty much all of trumps economic advisors are guys with homes within 30 minutes of New Canaan and some of them actually run multi billion dollar hedge funds. So how likely is it that these guys get what you are saying?
This election was not about policy. Trump wanted to run and he hired a data analytics firm who figured out the demographic to target and he tailored his language to that. You are already seeing him change his tune on many topics.
The reality is no one knows what to expect from this administration - Trump himself probably doesn't even know.
The loud minority always are more valuable. Ever heard of the phrase the squeaky wheel gets the grease? The people in this country who have what they want don't vote. That has always been evident. It's also one of the reasons why turnout is always pathetic. And those people that run multi-billion dollar hedge funds bought the government a long time ago. They have everything they need already. And for the record, the data analytics team in Brooklyn that Hilary had was top notch as well as was Obama's in 2008 in Chicago. I knew many quants that worked there.
The loud minority always are more valuable. Ever heard of the phrase the squeaky wheel gets the grease? The people in this country who have what they want don't vote. That has always been evident. It's also one of the reasons why turnout is always pathetic. And those people that run multi-billion dollar hedge funds bought the government a long time ago. They have everything they need already. And for the record, the data analytics team in Brooklyn that Hilary had was top notch as well as was Obama's in 2008 in Chicago. I knew many quants that worked there.
The majority did squeak. Just they were in the wrong states.
I agree with you on the hedgefunds. My point was that you kept saying that this election was about middle America revolting and the NY financier not understanding it, but in reality nothing has actually changed. All the jobs creation advisors are hedgefunders and bankers. If they didn't get it before (to your point) why would they get it now?
The point about the data analytics is that while all politicians say one thing in an election and do different things - I think in Trump's case, the difference between his actual policies and his election platform will be more divergent than any in a peacetime environment. Essentially he played his base.
As my sister read somewhere: The establishment took Trump literally but not seriously, Trump's base didn't take him literally but took him seriously. Soon we will find out what literal means.
Personally I can't wait for trickle down economics. I was too young and my family too poor to benefit the last time.
Right, so there is a bit of nuance here that you have omitted originally... You said "nothing is done", but what you meant to say was that "nothing right is done", where "right" is defined as "helping the majority".Now we're getting somewhere. This is the point I want to focus on because it's where the conversation almost always breaks down and why nobody in the media could understand how Trump won. Let's address those items one at a time, only lets look at them through the lens of middle America and not some billion dollar hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT that doesn't understand what all the bickering is about, everything looks dandy from his estate window.
Obamacare: This helped almost NO ONE. Not even the poor. Many of the poor who had de facto single payer healthcare were thrown off medicaid and given essentially a gov't sponsored HMO plan. They were given "access" to health insurance. Some had subsidies to pay for the premiums but the doughnut hole was on them. For most of middle america they saw their health insurance double or triple in cost. Again, the hedge fund manager in CT sees this as trivial and people should just pay up and stop complaining.
Dodd_Frank: How exactly did this help middle class workers in Ohio? Oh yeah it didn't. In fact, it did very little except raise the cost of doing business. Not to worry, the hedge fund manager in CT just moved his fund offshore and fired his US staff. In fact, most banks let go of employees, shut down their trading desks, forced people out of work and added onerous fees on financial transactions that we all have to pay for to offset the higher regulation cost.
Regime Change: Ahh yes, the middle class loves this one. Sending their poor kids who they can no longer afford to send to state university and instead force them into the "corp". They get the privilege of losing their limbs in the middle east so the hedge fund manager, who still doesn't get what all the damn bikering is about as his oil trades are making him a killing. Where are his kids? Not in the service. They are in Georgetown getting a masters in Public Policy at 500k a pop so upon graduation hedge fund daddy can ask some favors from his high net worth clients to pull some strings on Capitol Hill to get hedge fund daddy's kid a job in the Senators office. He does feel bad of course that your kid from Ohio didn't make it make back from Syria. He shows his condolences by wearing a US lapel on his polo shirt around the hedge fund office in Stamford. You see, he really does care.
Marty this is what you might not be getting. None of these policies, none of these actions are helping a majority of the people in this country. Yes, stocks are at the highs, real estate in New Canaan, CT is holding at the highs and for people on the coasts life is swell. For a majority of this country they get to hear lectures on racism, xenophobia, bigotry and told that the most important issue of the day is transgender bathroom rights.
And one last time, the hedge fund manager in New Canaan, CT just doesn't understand what all this complaining is about. He's never been richer. Everything looks swell. Guess what, good news, his kid did get that job on Capitol Hill. See, everyone wins.
I have to say that, again, I do have some sympathy and I hope you believe me when I say that I do understand these things (gimme a little credit).
However, the story doesn't quite add up for me.
Firstly, the majority of voters in the US, technically, voted for Hillary, so I am not really sure I buy the idea that "helping the majority" criterion is the right one.
Secondly, on Obamacare, I am no expert, but if it didn't help anybody, why are there at least some statistics that suggest that it did? Why did enrolment jump so much since the election?
On Dodd-Frank, I appreciate that you care about the lives of all those peeps employed by hedge funds and banks who lost their jobs. In my experience, Dodd-Frank was a great inconvenience for the banks, while actually helping the guy on the street. For instance, consider that CFPB, which exposed the recent Wells Fargo shenanigans and fined the bank, was created by Dodd-Frank. Now you may call me a cynic, but I am pretty sure I know who's gonna benefit the most from the repeal of Dodd-Frank. Have you seen GS stock recently?
On regime change, I agree.
I think newwurldmn expressed my sense of cognitive dissonance arnd Trump quite well. I just don't really get the logic.
Secondly, on Obamacare, I am no expert, but if it didn't help anybody, why are there at least some statistics that suggest that it did? Why did enrolment jump so much since the election?
Its antedoctal but small businesses that I know are paying higher premiums due to obamacare and one of my friends who was unfortunate enough to have cancer at the age of 30 was able to get reasonably priced health insurance.
If those pigeons are being fed on the BBC windowsills that would explain it.Nah, we here in the Ole Blighty are still using carrier pigeons to spread the news, rather than all these high-falutin' cable whatchamacallits.
As to the optimism, sure, I could be reading the tea leaves all wrong. I suppose that's likely to be the case, given the bias of the community that I am immersed in.
Right, so I do have a bit of a problem with both parts of this statement.
Without passing judgments, hadn't the recent years been characterized by some relatively significant stuff happening? I mean Obamacare, Dodd-Frank, regime change in a lot of hot sandy places, etc
As to Trump, I suppose my confusion stems from this meme that "Trump will do things". Looking at it dispassionately, all I know at this point is that half of the things Trump has said that he will do (or won't), he didn't really mean to do (or not do) in the first place. So while I certainly see the possibility that things will transpire the way you describe, I am not sure I would consider it my central scenario.
Time will tell, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.