How to work in a bank/or botique/or firm with no experience

[Trademanstan]

CT10, I do like your advice. I love it actually, i had to catch up on all the thanks and gratitudes, Its giving me a lot to think about.

It's just i got to think of a way to get my trading performance out there
so that investors and institutions can find me and track me down

Once they find me.. it's on like Donkey Kong

 

[CT10Gov]

Quote from Trademanstan:

It's just i got to think of a way to get my trading performance out there
so that investors and institutions can find me and track me down

Once they find me.. it's on like Donkey Kong

It really doesn't work like that. Investors and institutions do not track you down; It's the other way around - you have to track them down.

Finally, and you can thank Madoff and his types for this - it's harder than ever to raise money these days. The minimum threshold of AUM and length of track record that's required for a lot of allocators is getting heavier every day. Even well-pedigreed guys with verifiable track record on ~10MM are finding it difficult to cross that line. Of course, we all die trying - but those are the odds. Think about where you fit in.

Of course, you can raise a few million with friends and family and lucky connections. But if you can't grow that, what's the point? Fees on a few million won't give you a living.

 

[darkhorse]

Quote from CT10Gov:


Just one thing though, be vigilant about "inspirational" stories - especially considering who's telling them. For one thing - beware of these achievements that don't actually sound like much once you get beneath the marketing fluff.

This is true, though I hope you aren't pointing any fingers at me with this statement. I didn't promise the secret of how to become a big swinging dick, merely gave an off-the-cuff example, sans "fluff," of how someone who didn't have the right pedigree, educational background or connections was able to lay a foundation anyway.

Quote from CT10Gov:


Of course, you can raise a few million with friends and family and lucky connections. But if you can't grow that, what's the point? Fees on a few million won't give you a living.

p.s. Disagree with this entirely, however, via close friends who are living breathing examples to the contrary. If you can do well for yourself with your own trading capital -- with friends and family a nice kicker on top of that -- then you don't need huge AUM to boot. In fact for many traders this is the lower stress route, in which they only let a very few into their inner circle.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from CT10Gov:

Are you claiming you are John Hershey? The Anheuser-Busch Professor of Management Science?

Now, I happen to have spent some time at wharton. You are definitively not that Jack Hershey.

Or you meant this to be a joke? If so, it's kind of funny.

LOL......

Then you know the 6 city blocks where UCSC is located. Then you know Wharton thinks it is prestigious to have UCSC division heads affiliated with Wharton.

It is true that the Pres of Drexell had me interview for the head of the Penn College of General Studies.; he wanted me to head the resarch dept @ Drexell. Both considered half time jobs by the power that were. At the time, I needed a slower pace since my wife needed care as a consequence of a teen aged drunk.

Check in at Wharton and see the videos.

As you say, I'm definitely not that Jack Hershey.

The EOP phone number is 202-456-1414 as I remember.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from Trademanstan:

and what are those 7 letters, if you would like to share, so that I can attain those.. maybe.

The letters do not matter.

My Alma Mater, globally, is the fourth ranked engineering school (University) in the World.

I worked for one company (IBM). They provided me with the courses for a PhD in Theoretical Physics which I did NOT complete. (in the late 50's). But I did get trained by a few of the top 5 physicists in the world. Which means they knew of my performance.

My problem with working for someone was that my trading commissions and fees would exceed my salary. I did get paid at EOP but it was just the highest non negotiated hourly rate (portal to portal) paid in the US. When asked by EOP, you do not refuse.

Working is not a good idea.

Freedom is where it all happens. I chose freedom and my fees and commissions became trivial relative to the extraction of capital.

I did know a head of the SEC but it was only because his wife's family golfed and skiied with our family.

You have a lot of responses from people who didn't make it to freedom. Stay at Ohio State; do not try to get into a school where you are at the bottom of the class. have friends and be a BMOC.

I recruited for IBM; our interviews were brief. Two thirds of the time was spent explaining why the candidate wouldn't fit into IBM.

Today, I'm on a first name basis with 7 department heads at my alma Mater.

 

[sle]

Quote from CT10Gov:
It really doesn't work like that. Investors and institutions do not track you down; It's the other way around - you have to track them down.

Finally, and you can thank Madoff and his types for this - it's harder than ever to raise money these days. The minimum threshold of AUM and length of track record that's required for a lot of allocators is getting heavier every day. Even well-pedigreed guys with verifiable track record on ~10MM are finding it difficult to cross that line. Of course, we all die trying - but those are the odds. Think about where you fit in.

Of course, you can raise a few million with friends and family and lucky connections. But if you can't grow that, what's the point? Fees on a few million won't give you a living.

Yes, OPM is getting harder and harder by day. The allocators are consolidating and that drives money to bigger funds. The seeders are looking for extended track record or supreme pedigree (pedigree seems to rule - in fact, a senior manager can probably raise more then a hands on trader with a good track record). Oh, yeah, and sometimes you get plain lucky and a fat chunk of OPM just falls into your lap, like in case of yours truly.

This said, if you are in the right field and have the track record, you might be able to pick up some money. In general, it seems that it's much easier to find investors/seeders if you do something higher frequency and fully systematic. However, unless it is a lifestyle choice, a profitable systematic trader can probably do better financially in an existing fund vs running his own shop.

 

[dandxg]

Quote from sle:

I am going to repeat myself yet another time. There is way more to the trading world beyond equities and futures. There is a gigantic world of credit/mortgages/govies that is mostly traded by appointment. There is a huge world of OTC derivatives that mostly trade by appointment, equity options in large size trade mostly via voice brokers. Even beyond that, there are myriads of trading/investing styles that will never be automated, e.g global macro.

Oh I agree. When my wife worked for a large mortgage banker she said there were two guys that managed packing and selling the loans to wallstreet or other banking related institutions. They just sat there and watched bonds and treasuries all days, made a couple of trades,etc.

 

[CT10Gov]

In case anyone hasn't caught on, this is complete, incoherent, nonsense. It's just nouns strung together with bits of random verbs.

What video?

Quote from jack hershey:

LOL......

Then you know the 6 city blocks where UCSC is located. Then you know Wharton thinks it is prestigious to have UCSC division heads affiliated with Wharton.

It is true that the Pres of Drexell had me interview for the head of the Penn College of General Studies.; he wanted me to head the resarch dept @ Drexell. Both considered half time jobs by the power that were. At the time, I needed a slower pace since my wife needed care as a consequence of a teen aged drunk.

Check in at Wharton and see the videos.

As you say, I'm definitely not that Jack Hershey.

The EOP phone number is 202-456-1414 as I remember.

 

[CT10Gov]

Quote from darkhorse:

This is true, though I hope you aren't pointing any fingers at me with this statement. I didn't promise the secret of how to become a big swinging dick, merely gave an off-the-cuff example, sans "fluff," of how someone who didn't have the right pedigree, educational background or connections was able to lay a foundation anyway.



p.s. Disagree with this entirely, however, via close friends who are living breathing examples to the contrary. If you can do well for yourself with your own trading capital -- with friends and family a nice kicker on top of that -- then you don't need huge AUM to boot. In fact for many traders this is the lower stress route, in which they only let a very few into their inner circle.

I'm not sure managing you own net worth and the money of trusted and cherished friends and family for your own financial survival is low stress. I'd argue that without a goal to grow beyond that, it's reckless.

 

[Grandluxe]

Jack Hershey is Daniel H. Silberberg Professor in the Operations and Information Management and Health Care Systems Departments at the Wharton School. He also has a secondary appointment in Penn's Psychology Department, and is a Senior Fellow at the Leonard Davis Institute of Health Economics.

Professor Hershey received a B.S. in mathematics from Carnegie-Mellon University. His graduate work was at Stanford University where he received an M.S. in Operations Research and a Ph.D. in Management Science from the Graduate School of Business.

Prior to coming to Wharton in 1976, Professor Hershey was on the faculties of the Stanford Business School and Medical School, and served as a Congressional Fellow in the U.S. Congress in 1975-76. At Wharton, he has served as Director of the Health Care Administration Program, Chairperson of the Decision Sciences Department, and Director of Research and Acting Executive Director of the Leonard Davis Institute.