how to understand Al Brooks

[padutrader]

A real trading room...only the head trader talks. A real chat room...anyone can talk.

Trades can be posted in either but I don't believe "chat rooms


I think a little differently but via my difference in experience.

Trading is very difficult and complex because there's more to it than just trade signals. Yet, you got to understand I'm from a "business like" & "military family". Thus, I look beyond trading prior to getting involved.

The first question I asked wasn't about "price patterns". My first questions involved taxes and a business plan...I was 17 years old when I asked those questions. Answered by an ex Air Force officer...my old man a floor trader at the time.

Yet, later...trading became easier but only after many years of experience. But I've never viewed trading as "easy" because of all the hard work involved in the beginning and ongoing to be able to keep doing it.

Today, I see too many people jumping into "trading rooms", "books", "trading courses" as if its all they need to do. Most don't even prepare for tax time or don't even manage their trading as if they are "self employed" (a business).

Typically naive responses I see...if someone had a 20k month...they immediately start playing with the "compounding theory"...lets see. If I make 20k per month...how long will it take before I'm a millionaire ?

They don't even look at living expenses, support of a family, private medical & health insurances (costs), disability insurances (costs), self employ pension plan, taxes and other things that makes the compounding theory look like a joke. Seriously, throw in some kids, spouse...the family...those profits are greatly minimized but the idiots out there only see the "net theory"...that compounding number. Now throw in a possible divorce in the picture somewhere along the lines in your trading career...you'll see the reality of being self-employed.

You gotta treat trading like a business. If you can do that although most can not...its not easy and its a lot of work...ongoing. Simply, in my experience...I've never personally met a business owner say that its easy work.

If someone can not treat their trading like a business...its then is just a hobby.

wrbtrader

yes you have to treat it like a business.
But though no business is easy,you can do things that make it difficult or do things that make it easier.
in trading, if you observe the market, your chosen indicators,if any, there are signs that will make it easier for you.
one example in the chart below the market touched the moving average,arrow marked 1,and immediately went up. in the next touch marked with the next arrow,the market and hung around the moving average for 4-5 bars ; and the next arrow, market went below the moving average.
if you observe this you will realise that the move is weakening.
you can make trading easy or easier by correct observation: observation is sometimes better than analysis

 

[Frederick Foresight]

He's posted countless logs of his trades.

Who, Jack? Link, please.

As for the rest of your post, I'm glad you're killing it. Happy trails.

 

[Sprout]

Who, Jack? Link, please.

As for the rest of your post, I'm glad you're killing it. Happy trails.

Thank you. Further commentary is off-topic in this thread. Just look deeper in his logs. If you are more than a troll, post a chart in one of the current Journals focused on his method.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Further commentary is off-topic in this thread. Just look deeper in his logs. If you are more than a troll, post a chart in one of the current Journals focused on his method.

That it is. However, you already wrote several paragraphs on the matter, so I don's see how a single explanatory link would trash this thread. I looked but was not able to find anything worthwhile apart from drownpruf's (atticus/riskarb/destriero) interesting exchanges with Jack a few years ago:

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/search/7419357/?q=jack+hershey&o=date&c[user][0]=474692

I found them most educational.

As to your request to post charts in one of the "journals" on JH's method, I have no interest in going down that rabbit hole. Forgive me for saying so, but I find it as "hindsighted" as Al's stuff. However, the important thing is that you report it works well for you.

As an aside, please note that my aversion is not to TA itself, since I use a simple, rule-based version in my own trading, but rather to what I personally find particularly convoluted variations of it. And, again, forgive me for saying so, but I find AB's and JH's versions to be such variations. That shouldn't matter to you any more than your assessment of what I do matters to me, which is not at all. In the end, we should be able to discuss and critique approaches without feeling personally attacked. Because it is not personal. Except maybe towards AB and JH...

 

[llIHeroic]

However, the important thing is that you report it works well for you.

If we all thought this way the boards would be a much more pleasant place. Seems like trading can't help but touch nerves frequently.. perhaps from being so difficult to master... as the art is seemingly opposed to a lot of ingrained psychological tendencies the average person has.

As an aside, please note that my aversion is not to TA itself, since I use it in my own trading, but rather to the convoluted variations of it. And, again, forgive me for saying so, but I find AB's and JH's versions to be such variations.

Convoluted from a certain perspective.. I wouldn't argue with you there either. A lot of these guys built up so much subconscious competence that it becomes impossible to transfer the content as a purely intellectual concept. Hence it seems like gibberish to practitioners of different trading worldviews. FWIW, a lot of the claims jack supposedly made are blown out of proportion, either by the ones retelling them or by him exaggerating to rile people up.

He didn't constantly clear 3x ATR, but he could easily do that when the day had reasonable volatility and was ranging fairly predictably. He was open to sharing his blotters, just not very often on public forums. He did have losing trades but they were always quite small. This what a lackluster afternoon looked like for him. In his later charts he added symbols denoting his entries and exits and he's posted dozens of those on the forums for the more curious.

At the end of the day, what proof is sufficient to prove the man? It varies by individual, and for some nothing will ever be enough. Trying to strike the right balance between allowing the skeptical their skepticism and keeping the door open enough for the curious to investigate as they will has always been a core part of the P/V trader culture. RIP jack.

 

[Sprout]

That it is. However, you already wrote several paragraphs on the matter, so I don's see how a single explanatory link would trash this thread. I looked but was not able to find anything worthwhile apart from drownpruf's (atticus/riskarb/destriero) interesting exchanges with Jack a few years ago:

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/search/7419357/?q=jack+hershey&o=date&c[user][0]=474692

I found them most educational.

As to your request to post charts in one of the "journals" on JH's method, I have no interest in going down that rabbit hole. Forgive me for saying so, but I find it as "hindsighted" as Al's stuff. However, the important thing is that you report it works well for you.

As an aside, please note that my aversion is not to TA itself, since I use a simple, rule-based version in my own trading, but rather to what I personally find particularly convoluted variations of it. And, again, forgive me for saying so, but I find AB's and JH's versions to be such variations. That shouldn't matter to you any more than your assessment of what I do matters to me, which is not at all. In the end, we should be able to discuss and critique approaches without feeling personally attacked. Because it is not personal. Except maybe towards AB and JH...

I don't know about the atticus exchange, it's prolly on my ignore list which is quite long (link not working.) Very quickly, I learned in order to really grasp this stuff it is important to focus and concentrate with the exclusion of distractions. Also, when first coming here, I chose to research and learn for years prior to posting.

You might what to brush up on your search abilities. This is just but one example:
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-on-a-daily-basis.275733/page-23#post-3829780

It's cool. Again it's not for everybody, if fact it's probably not for most people but respect when given pays off in spades. Jack's stuff is definitely not highsighted. It gives meaningful actionable information of developing context as a bar builds - whatever the timeframe. The caveat is one has to work it, for it to work for you. It being MADA.

We're in off-topic land,
let's get back to Al,...

 

[speedo]

I don't know about the atticus exchange, it's prolly on my ignore list which is quite long (link not working.) Very quickly, I learned in order to really grasp this stuff it is important to focus and concentrate with the exclusion of distractions. Also, when first coming here, I chose to research and learn for years prior to posting.

You might what to brush up on your search abilities. This is just but one example:
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...-on-a-daily-basis.275733/page-23#post-3829780

It's cool. Again it's not for everybody, if fact it's probably not for most people but respect when given pays off in spades. Jack's stuff is definitely not highsighted. It gives meaningful actionable information of developing context as a bar builds - whatever the timeframe. The caveat is one has to work it, for it to work for you. It being MADA.

We're in off-topic land,
let's get back to Al,...

Yes, learning to trade is difficult regardless of system but time is better spent developing the skills and personal habits to succeed rather than criticizing others.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Yes, learning to trade is difficult regardless of system but time is better spent developing the skills and personal habits to succeed rather than criticizing others.

Sure, but this is a discussion forum. Developing skills and habits occur outside of it. So your jab is not well placed.

 

[lcranston]

That it is. However, you already wrote several paragraphs on the matter, so I don's see how a single explanatory link would trash this thread. I looked but was not able to find anything worthwhile apart from drownpruf's (atticus/riskarb/destriero) interesting exchanges with Jack a few years ago:

https://www.elitetrader.com/et/search/7419357/?q=jack+hershey&o=date&c[user][0]=474692

I found them most educational.

As to your request to post charts in one of the "journals" on JH's method, I have no interest in going down that rabbit hole. Forgive me for saying so, but I find it as "hindsighted" as Al's stuff. However, the important thing is that you report it works well for you.

As an aside, please note that my aversion is not to TA itself, since I use a simple, rule-based version in my own trading, but rather to what I personally find particularly convoluted variations of it. And, again, forgive me for saying so, but I find AB's and JH's versions to be such variations. That shouldn't matter to you any more than your assessment of what I do matters to me, which is not at all. In the end, we should be able to discuss and critique approaches without feeling personally attacked. Because it is not personal. Except maybe towards AB and JH...

Practically anything will work for anybody, whether it's Hershey or Brooks or Volman or Seidel or Beggs or any other "price action" guru (none of whom actually trade price but rather bars or candles) or it's MA crossovers or Fibonacci or Bollinger Bands or Elliott or Taylor or God knows whatall. Frederick is absolutely right. So is Speedo. So is Sprout. So is Xela. So is TG and the latest guy to initiate yet another Hershey thread. But then so is Chuck leBeau's guy with the antenna sticking out of his Coke bottle, receiving radio signals from Mars. The fact is that, no matter how nonsensical a given approach may seem, if one applies it with discipline, cuts his losses, and lets his profits run, he will make money. If he isn't disciplined, doesn't control his losses, and doesn't let his profits run, he will fail.

Everyone who shows a profit believes that whatever it is he or she is doing is The Answer, and if only all those losers would just use fractals (or whatever), he or she would become a winner as well. But they wouldn't. Not unless they are disciplined, cut their losses, and let their profits run. That's the way it is and has been for centuries and always will be. The rest is just fodder for pointless arguments among otherwise rational and intelligent people, each of whom has drunk his own Kool-Aid.

 

[padutrader]

Like Fred says this is a discussion forum and it is good if does not get personal.

The market is one and the same for everyone so each trader/vendor is using different words to describe the same thing.

i have more than 20 years in the serious study and observation of markets and they just have not changed:either the bulls have control or the bears have control.that is all there is to it.

I HAVE TRADED COMPLICATED THEORIES LIKE ELLIOT very successfully, for more than 5 years before realising that the market is far more simple.
so convolutions may be also profitable.
I think Fred has a point when he says some people convolute technical analysis to self glorify themselves in order to extract money:Ross naming a pattern as Ross hook is just one example of this.

But Al does come out with fantastic stuff,maybe by mistake,see my post no 298 in this thread on this page https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/how-to-understand-al-brooks.320533/page-30