Is your current skills demonstrable ? I'd like to see this multiple percent returns per day/week first hand. Just being long S&P is no skill. Any idiot could have followed that no risk free money S&P thread and made a truck load.
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How to turn $1000 into $1,000,000 with options in less than 6 years
- Thread starter crayon851
- Start date
Is your current skills demonstrable ? I'd like to see this multiple percent returns per day/week first hand. Just being long S&P is no skill. Any idiot could have followed that no risk free money S&P thread and made a truck load.
I'm just hanging out this afternoon so I will address some of your ill informed statements
1. The reason institutional traders find the change to retail nearly impossible is the same as why so many previously successful floor traders/locals found it impossible to succeed as screen retail traders when the exchanges went online. The strategies and tactics that they know simply are not effective outside their designed environment therefore in many ways they are like the rest of us who had to do the hard yards to find something that works, nobody hands it to you on a platter. Although if I went to work in an institutional environment they would teach what they want me to do. Unless you have something that works in the environment you are operating, no amount of money is going to save you. I recommend that you go and find out what the institutional traders do so that you cease making erronious assertions.
2. Making money from trading is not difficult to do IF you know what you are doing, the vast majority of retail traders (I use the term trader loosely) are clueless babes in the woods, and they will be ripped apart in due course. I agree with most of what you are saying in the second and third paragraphs if applied to your average retail trader. As I mentioned in a previous post the solution will be found in Risk Management. By altering your Risk Profile you will remove all the issues you have mentioned in these paragraphs, obviously you didn't understand what I was saying. I suspect the only notion of Risk Management you have is some vague notion you read somewhere. Risk Management is what allows Blackjack card counters the ability to put the odds in their favour even though the odds would normally favour the house and the casinos work very hard to keep them away from their tables. It also allows successful poker players to remain at the table long enough to capitalise on the winning hands, it also allows traders to survive long enough for the law of large numbers to kick in, by allowing you to skew the odds from 2or3 to 1 against to this many or more times in your favour, we always have the theory of runs to deal with. So provided you are not a knucklehead you are pretty much guaranteed to succeed. No, you don't need millions to make a living at this game, $100K-$200K is more than enough, but you do need to know what you are doing or no amount will be enough.
3. In the short time that I have known you there is one thing that I am certain of and it is that you do not reflect any of the main characteristics of a successful trader. I suspect that you are in your teens or maybe even still in school, that's not to say that you aren't older but rather a reflection of your maturity and behaviour, it may be that you simply have an incredibly large ego that is running out of control, who knows. I wish you well in your pursuit of small gains, but have already mentioned in a previous post why you are doomed to failure, obviously your reading skills match your knowledge of mathermatics, but of course this makes perfect sense.
I realize that I am wasting my time showing you anything, but rather do this for the people who follow in the hope that it might spark that AHAA moment for them, rather than being put off by your antics, my gift to them.
Cheers John
THANK YOU John Sir,- you have not wasted your time. There are many folks including myself who have benefitted from this post which you carefully drafted. You have sensed the OP. is in for the quick buck and no matter what you tell- he/she is doomed to fail. As mentioned in Mark Douglas -disciplined trader book.. u cant control the market- and dont try that.its irrelevant- but more important is -can you control yourself - then you will be profitable in the Long term
You guys are funny, so i'll chime once more tonight. The floor traders are given an edge by a friend (both in the pit, but only one needs to be) and sometimes that edge is selling 9's as 8's go offer, so they can immediately buy 8's if they want. of course they can't do that the same way online. I do think the amount of money matters, since if you only have 30k and lose it all...well it's all over. but if you have 300k and lose 30k, there is still a chance you can learn and recover before it's all gone. also trading with 'scared money' is just that. the only successful trait i've really seen are traders who can wait and wait and then blindly buy in a pullback with small size, decent stop, and then add a lot when it goes in their favor. 10-50k days i've seen. but yes, the ego will crush....and all it takes is one loss you don't want to take, or add to it, and the next you know you are down months and months of profits.....eventually you see it all.
wasn't sure if u meant 2 pip profit, thanks for the clarification.
SPY trading is so liquid but u find many quirks...
for a SPY option once.- i saw a bid ask at 8 -9 cent.. i put in a mkt buy and what i noticed is it momentarily jumped 1 cent- executed and then reset back... freaking amaZing.
when I placed a limit order to buy 9. then it moved to 10-11. the MMs will not leave 1 cent on the table...
go figure..
SPY trading is so liquid but u find many quirks...
for a SPY option once.- i saw a bid ask at 8 -9 cent.. i put in a mkt buy and what i noticed is it momentarily jumped 1 cent- executed and then reset back... freaking amaZing.
when I placed a limit order to buy 9. then it moved to 10-11. the MMs will not leave 1 cent on the table...
go figure..
1 cent is one cent. Do that all day, all day.....it adds up to good money and very little risk. Remember Citadel or someone bought Schwab's client book so they can execute like this all day. all dark pool stuff, and i think they paid only 1 billion for their trades and they made 9 billion one year or something off this. so you put an order with CS and they route it to Citadel and they manage their book off this jokers. these jokers have no idea which exchanges they are getting filled on. commission, "slippage", and then when they lose they aren't going to blame a fill a few cents off. or when they win they won't yell over a bad fill. and when they really get filled bad the broker can say "oh, fast market. nobody knows."
the MMs will not leave 1 cent on the table...
go figure..
My experience is that they don't leave 0.0001 cent on the table. The price granularity doesn't go lower than that for me. But since they are in the business for profit, it should be obvious why they don't give money away. This is something most new comers, and even some old comers, don't get.
The required bare minimum capital for trading would be $1 million in today's money, with no margin for error. $2 million on the other hand would give some breathing space. A 20% return on $1m from trading is excellent or beyond excellent in anyone's book. $100k of the profit can be used for frugal living. The other $100k can be used for capital growth. Without a sizeable growth, the trading capital would be eaten up by inflation and become worthless.
Now how many in retail has $1m laying around then ? We know plenty of people fall in the OP's 1k bracket, some people would fall in the OP's enhanced 10k bracket, a small few would fall in the 100k bracket. None of them will succeed, unless they have a good paying full time job on the side. If they did have a job on the side, that would more or less guarantee their failure in trading. Essentially, retail trading is a dead end.
Anyway, I am not unfamiliar with high percentage returns. A couple of months ago, I made 25% return on capital. I knew I was in very serious trouble. Last month I made 10%. I was still in serious trouble. Needless to say I had to pay for my lesson. The lesson was expensive and I paid it with a great big grin, but I became a real trader. I now even know what it will take to succeed, down to the 10th decimal place on the capital.
Now how many in retail has $1m laying around then ? We know plenty of people fall in the OP's 1k bracket, some people would fall in the OP's enhanced 10k bracket, a small few would fall in the 100k bracket. None of them will succeed, unless they have a good paying full time job on the side. If they did have a job on the side, that would more or less guarantee their failure in trading. Essentially, retail trading is a dead end.
Anyway, I am not unfamiliar with high percentage returns. A couple of months ago, I made 25% return on capital. I knew I was in very serious trouble. Last month I made 10%. I was still in serious trouble. Needless to say I had to pay for my lesson. The lesson was expensive and I paid it with a great big grin, but I became a real trader. I now even know what it will take to succeed, down to the 10th decimal place on the capital.
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I have demonstrated these skills on a regular basis, that is how I make my living. You said "I'd like to see multiple percent returns per day/week first hand" I'm sure that you would but I doubt that you ever will.lol You also said "Any idiot could have followed the no risk free money S&P thread and made a truck load", so I expect that you will be retiring to a billionaire lifestyle, because you have proven to me and most thinking people on here that you are well and truly qualified.lolIs your current skills demonstrable ? I'd like to see this multiple percent returns per day/week first hand. Just being long S&P is no skill. Any idiot could have followed that no risk free money S&P thread and made a truck load.
Cheers John
I'm sorry but I nearly fell of my chair I was laughing so hard after reading your post.lol All I can say is if you are off your meds you need to get back on them asap.lol If you are on your meds then perhaps it is time to see the doctor about getting something stronger. lol Thank you, you have made my day.lolThe required bare minimum capital for trading would be $1 million in today's money, with no margin for error. $2 million on the other hand would give some breathing space. A 20% return on $1m from trading is excellent or beyond excellent in anyone's book. $100k of the profit can be used for frugal living. The other $100k can be used for capital growth. Without a sizeable growth, the trading capital would be eaten up by inflation and become worthless.
Now how many in retail has $1m laying around then ? We know plenty of people fall in the OP's 1k bracket, some people would fall in the OP's enhanced 10k bracket, a small few would fall in the 100k bracket. None of them will succeed, unless they have a good paying full time job on the side. If they did have a job on the side, that would more or less guarantee their failure in trading. Essentially, retail trading is a dead end.
Anyway, I am not unfamiliar with high percentage returns. A couple of months ago, I made 25% return on capital. I knew I was in very serious trouble. Last month I made 10%. I was still in serious trouble. Needless to say I had to pay for my lesson. The lesson was expensive and I paid it with a great big grin, but I became a real trader. I now even know what it will take to succeed, down to the 10th decimal place on the capital.
Cheers John
With any money less than, say 100k your business model is to sell subscriptions online to supplement your bad trading. 99% of all websites of gurus do this. margin will help the first year, and it is gambling, but if you learn to be less risky it can help. no margin, yes probably 500k with very little expenses the first few years. but yes, it's probably not enough and most newbies won't make 7-8% the first year; however, that is not a crazy return and if young, say 20's, you can live off your parent's stake. it's like sports....people make it, but odds are you have never met them.
Fair comment, although I would expect most new comers to think themselves lucky if they end the first year down only 7-8% and that is not including living expenses. I haven't traded stocks since the late 80s/early 90s, and yes you do need a substantially larger account to have any chance of earning a living thru equities, when I realized that derivatives provided the best RR and the ability to manage risk better, with equities you are always caught between two evils, either coping large losses in $ value when the market moves against you or getting chopped to pieces by the whipsaws, it's the natural rhythem of the market . Best to keep a large proportion of your assets earning a safe return whilst capitalizing on the leverage and risk management derivatives afford. But as always each to their own.With any money less than, say 100k your business model is to sell subscriptions online to supplement your bad trading. 99% of all websites of gurus do this. margin will help the first year, and it is gambling, but if you learn to be less risky it can help. no margin, yes probably 500k with very little expenses the first few years. but yes, it's probably not enough and most newbies won't make 7-8% the first year; however, that is not a crazy return and if young, say 20's, you can live off your parent's stake. it's like sports....people make it, but odds are you have never met them.
Cheers John