how to start futures trading (emini)

[dbphoenix]

So again, we see you have a weak math ability. I said 6 ticks not 6 points. On ES 4 ticks = 1 point So if I was talking about ES in that example, it would have been 1.5 points. But, as always just like you have a hard time doing math, you have a hard time reading what I wrote. I was not talking about ES in that example, I was trading a different futures with real money where I use a different stop level. However, in ES, I do many times with real money use just 1 point stops which is 4 ticks.

There is a bit of sand in the machinery here. You're assuming that the trader isn't clueless and has actually done the research and testing to develop a robust trading plan (though having done so, he likely would decide that the ES was not for him). He therefore won't be looking at 20pt drawdowns and strings of 22+ losses.

Butter, on the other hand, is assuming that the trader is like him and has no trading plan. His trader would likely blow up in a week. Or maybe even a day.

Those who are following this exchange can decide for themselves whom they want to lend an ear to.

 

[oraclewizard77]

You are again exactly right. +1

There is a bit of sand in the machinery here. You're assuming that the trader isn't clueless and has actually done the research and testing to develop a robust trading plan (though having done so, he likely would decide that the ES was not for him). He therefore won't be looking at 20pt drawdowns and strings of 22+ losses.

Butter, on the other hand, is assuming that the trader is like him and has no trading plan. His trader would likely blow up in a week.

Those who are following this exchange can decide for themselves whom they want to lend an ear to.

 

[butterfacetrader]

There is a bit of sand in the machinery here. You're assuming that the trader isn't clueless and has actually done the research and testing to develop a robust trading plan (though having done so, he likely would decide that the ES was not for him). He therefore won't be looking at 20pt drawdowns and strings of 22+ losses.

Butter, on the other hand, is assuming that the trader is like him and has no trading plan. His trader would likely blow up in a week. Or maybe even a day.

Those who are following this exchange can decide for themselves whom they want to lend an ear to.

As is typical you have your shills and your snakesoil salesman. You, dbpheonix, falls in the latter.

You keep talking about 'your system'. Nobody knows 'your system'. Its unverified. And you're also not stinking rich on the forbes rich list. Clearly you are not as good as you think.

How do you know I don't have a strategy that works? Did I ever talk strategy? I only, along with a few level headed individuals, only warned of the risks of trading futures, especially with reputable brokers that require a high margin requirement and in accordance with the CME requirement for overnight positions. It means such a person with $6K only able to carry 1 ES contract overnight likely has a very low chance of success.

Never have I talked strategy. Only, pointing out the fact of trading that every trader is aware of, and that is you cannot time markets to precision, especially in a choppy market. You can get it right +/- a few points near a short term top or bottom, but you can't possibly call all tops and all bottoms with precision. Anyone with this ability should be stinking rich on the forbes rich list. Anyone who says they have this but is dirt poor still trading for a living, is a snakes oil salesman.

 

[dbphoenix]

How do you know I don't have a strategy that works?

You said so. If you have a trading plan, what is it? If you don't, then all you're doing is repeating what you've read or heard somewhere. Which is common amongst recreational traders.

 

[Grandluxe]

I have been using IB for few years for stocks only and I am just flat (though market is up).

How should I venture into futures/emini trading? Like mentors, daily bulletins, newsgroups.

My capital is $6K (and I would not go on margin).
Every suggestion helps..

Depends how old you are. If you are in your prime working age, I suggest you do not start. Go get yourself a career and when you are near retirement age, you can trade the markets for a living.

I know quite a few people on my previous desk who have traded successfully for 8-10+ years and have now left the markets due to market conditions. These are people who made money day in, day out, year after year. They are now struggling to find a paid job because they are way too old without relevant experience. Been out of the career loop too long and your value is just about zero.

The problem with trading is you don't know when your model/strat/edge will end. Just look at Bill Miller and Richard Dennis of "turtles" fame. Of course if you have managed to amass a large amount of money before total system failure, then good for you, but most people wouldn't have.

Better to get a job, get a career, get a life. You want to trade for a living, wait till you are financially settled at 50-60. Then go for it.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

I am always impressed by people who can trade the ES with 1 point stops. I'm being partly sarcastic and partly serious. All the backtesting I'ver ever done showed that such tight stops were a losing strategy. I suppose if you have the stomach to keep reentering, it can work. Maybe markets have changed in some subtle way to make it possible now. Even though the contract is a multiple of what it once was, it does seem there is much less volatility intraday.

We used to routinely get trading halts. I can't remember the last time we had one.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Depends how old you are. If you are in your prime working age, I suggest you do not start. Go get yourself a career and when you are near retirement age, you can trade the markets for a living.

I know quite a few people on my previous desk who have traded successfully for 8-10+ years and have now left the markets due to market conditions. These are people who made money day in, day out, year after year. They are now struggling to find a paid job because they are way too old without relevant experience. Been out of the career loop too long and your value is just about zero.

The problem with trading is you don't know when your model/strat/edge will end. Just look at Bill Miller and Richard Dennis of "turtles" fame. Of course if you have managed to amass a large amount of money before total system failure, then good for you, but most people wouldn't have.

Better to get a job, get a career, get a life. You want to trade for a living, wait till you are financially settled at 50-60. Then go for it.

Very good advice for most.

 

[butterfacetrader]

I am always impressed by people who can trade the ES with 1 point stops. I'm being partly sarcastic and partly serious. All the backtesting I'ver ever done showed that such tight stops were a losing strategy. I suppose if you have the stomach to keep reentering, it can work. Maybe markets have changed in some subtle way to make it possible now. Even though the contract is a multiple of what it once was, it does seem there is much less volatility intraday.

We used to routinely get trading halts. I can't remember the last time we had one.

You see, these 'pros' purport to have the skills to time the market to perfection. Technically they don't need stop loss. It goes up as soon as they are long. It goes down as soon as they are short. They are that good.

The fact you can't do the same, means you don't have a 'system'.

[end sarcasm]
<end sarcasm=""></end>

 

[wrbtrader]

...it does seem there is much less volatility intraday.

We used to routinely get trading halts. I can't remember the last time we had one.

Yes, overall there's much LESS volatility in comparison to the Emini ES before 2010. The key in current market conditions is that the volatility is still there but you just have to be patient and wait for it to show up especially if you know what usually precedes the volatility. Next, when it does show up...try hard to ride it for many points or have some size on the trade.

 

[k p]

As is typical you have your shills and your snakesoil salesman. You, dbpheonix, falls in the latter.

You keep talking about 'your system'. Nobody knows 'your system'. Its unverified. And you're also not stinking rich on the forbes rich list. Clearly you are not as good as you think.

This this might be directed at me, since I was speaking highly of Db, so let me address this.

I see you signed up just last month. Given how strong your opinions already are, you are either a person who has been around before with a different name, or a failed trader who is new here but already mad at the idea that some people can make trading work.

I have patience for angry people because I understand anger and frustration well. But I don't have much patience for stupidity. If you only followed some posts of DbPhoenix, you would see his system is clearly outlined with links provided. So first strike for you there.

As to it's verification, what is stopping you from doing this for yourself? Its actually quite simple, but I will save you lots of time. Each and every single trader on here who has tried following the "Straight Line Approach" has in fact had practically every single week up. I know because I've asked many of them. I also know because I have done it myself for 2 weeks, and not even all that diligently. So if you cannot even do your own research to find the validity of your statement that the system isn't verified, you deserve to lose at trading.

Third... how do you know if he isn't on the Forbes list? I of course hardly doubt he is, but you seem to already have all the questions answered, so why are you even here on ET? Maybe he just trades one contract and is happy with the steady stream of income this provides.

Lastly, he never said he was good. I said he was good.

This line of argument that you present has been done so many times on here before. Each time the person doesn't even check their facts, heck, they don't even read the materials provided. They come in here with a preconceived idea, and they aren't on here to learn, they are on here to make themselves feel better by attempting to prove that nobody can make money at this, thereby making their own failure easier to accept.

At least you haven't sworn.. I'll give you that!

If you really want to learn, forget everything you know and open your mind. If you just want to make yourself feel better, getting everyone to agree with you is really really difficult.

Let's face it, you are here because deep down inside you must believe that some people do make money at this, and you desperately want to be one of these people. If this is the case, you will eventually have to start believing something.