How to pull the rug on SPX market makers

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Quote from cbkswonk:

Well, well.. Do I sense of tinge of jealousy here?

Have fun getting raped repeatedly in any market you go to.....not my concern one bit. :)
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People like me don't get raped anywhere. They are shrewd, lithe, nimble and have an uncanny way of figuring out things to beat the odds placed against them.

We will trade RUT, NDX, SPY, IWM and any other index that is liquid and fair to the investors. I will urge others to do the same. Your moat is going to dry up, and we will find skeltons of sharks and gators at the bottom.
 
Quote from IB Kevin:

While SPX markets are wide on the screen, they are very tight if quoted verbally. Access to the tight markets via voice broker is typically available only if you trade in relatively large size of at least 100 contracts.

Traders dealing in smaller sizes may be better off in screen-based products such as ES, SPY, NDX etc.
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IB Kevin and Stratergy,

Based on your experience, can you give some guidelines on bid/ask spreads for larger size orders, for example 100, 500, and 1000 lots outright and then the same for spread orders? Thanks - appreciate the info.
 
Quote from cbkswonk:

Hate to burst your bubble, but we make markets in all of those....
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But you can't dig a moat in other indexes. Those are traded on many exchanges around the country. Not much for you to do where we take our ball and bat to play ?
 
Quote from day7793:

You would be able to sell 100 or those?

Do you know how much margin your brokerage firm will need? Its over 1.447 million dollars.

I think you have no idea what we are talking here. You are not an SPX trader.
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Yeah, I knew you would say that. But who cares: if the premiium is as outreageous as you think, than a .10 profit is sure to be made.

You'r right that I never traded SPX, but many other options I did trade. Always as part of a spread; I use IB's spreadtrader and bid/ask the middle of the combo bid/ask, and then I wait. This works too.

Your statement about the MM's obligation to trade at the last quotes is ridiculous bs of course.

Ursa..
 
Quote from MajorUrsa:



You'r right that I never traded SPX, but many other options I did trade. Always as part of a spread; I use IB's spreadtrader and bid/ask the middle of the combo bid/ask, and then I wait. This works too.

Your statement about the MM's obligation to trade at the last quotes is ridiculous bs of course.

Ursa..
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Thats better at least you are honest about not trading SPX. I can appreciate that.

Its not that SPX Gator is " Obligated" to trade at mid point, its because he stands to lose lot more bigger contracts if I narrow the bid and ask for awhile with my one or two contracts, sitting on computer screen.

Lets say he keeps my narrowred BID and ASK for 15 minutes and Optioncoach is watching that action, he says wow, that is pretty neat. He pushes his 300 lot order at my narrowed Bid and that will be processed and done with. A CBOE Gator will lose a lot more with his 300 lot order than my order which is for just one or two contracts. That is why he fills mine in a flash and gets me out of there, and the Gator goes back with mouth wide open for the next prey!

I don't know why this concept is so hard to grasp by some people here. Have you tried it?
 
Quote from day7793:


Lets say he keeps my narrowred BID and ASK for 15 minutes and Optioncoach is watching that action, he says wow, that is pretty neat. He pushes his 300 lot order at my narrowed Bid and that will be processed and done with. A CBOE Gator will lose a lot more with his 300 lot order than my order which is for just one or two contracts.
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If you bid a 2-lot halfway and the MM still is at his original bid then anyone selling 300 limit at your price will sell 2 and have 298 waiting at the midpoint to sell.
If he sells Market he will sell 2 at your price and 298 at the MM's price.

How does the MM lose in either scenario?

Ursa..
 
Quote from MajorUrsa:

If you bid a 2-lot halfway and the MM still is at his original bid then anyone selling 300 limit at your price will sell 2 and have 298 waiting at the midpoint to sell.
If he sells Market he will sell 2 at your price and 298 at the MM's price.

How does the MM lose in either scenario?

Ursa..
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You are trying to split hairs, and sprouting theory in general.

It seems you don't trade SPX, your familiarity is not quite there. I I am not here to teach you how SPX orders are placed if you have not traded SPX and have no experience in it.

If you are unfortunate enough to be forced to go near that SPX moat filled with sharks and gators, just hit the mid prices with one or two contracts, you will get filled instantly. You will get what you want. Try it near closing time, it works super- fast.

Good Luck
 
Quote from day7793:

You are trying to split hairs, and sprouting theory in general.
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Since you are so scared of theory I tried to give a practical example. You now even dismiss that. It must be clear to all now that you don't know the reasoning behind your own statements.

Do you still claim that the MM has to buy all 298 offered options at your last bidprice?

The MM doesn't lose from your action, so he wont be afraid to lose, so he doesn't take you bid quickly out of fear. Just bs.

Everytime someone tries to explain something to you it get's dismiissed as being to theoretical. What do you want to discuss anyway? What is this board for if not to exchange arguments and counters?

Did you finish high-school?

Ursa..
 
Quote from MajorUrsa:

Since you are so scared of theory I tried to give a practical example. You now even dismiss that. It must be clear to all now that you don't know the reasoning behind your own statements.

Do you still claim that the MM has to buy all 298 offered options at your last bidprice?

The MM doesn't lose from your action, so he wont be afraid to lose, so he doesn't take you bid quickly out of fear. Just bs.

Everytime someone tries to explain something to you it get's dismiissed as being to theoretical. What do you want to discuss anyway? What is this board for if not to exchange arguments and counters?

Did you finish high-school?
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I don't know how the market makers work, I don't care how the SPX pits works, I don't care what goes on behind the curtain. All I care is what is the BID and ASK on my computer screen. I don't even care to know how it came to be that wide in the first place.

All I care is how I can narrow this wide bid and ask and get my orders filled. I am very very successful at doing that.

I have explained here repeatedly in this thread why you get filled instantly, why they fill your small orders instantly. But you want some academic answers, somebody who has never traded SPX, doesn't know beans about it in the first place.

If you are a trader go practice first , ask questions later.



Ursa..
 
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