how to manage false breakouts on NQ ES

Quote from jack hershey:

I meant partial fills going into the position and partial sells going out. I try to not exceed the blocks going through the T &S and to keep my participation below 10% of cummulative daily volume up to 100,000 shares which is my hold cap on shares in the 30 dollar range. It was just one trade for Gary and for me. I netted 17 pts on the 100k shares.

Cool...you're what I would call a player!...:D
 
I am so glad you commented.

See in your quote at ****'s



Quote from Magna:

Thanks for the chart with annotation, Jack. Even though your strategies do not include playing the reversals for beginners, I am getting the feeling that it's a downright critical part that can't be ignored at any level, and a method that's very dear to your heart.

**** you are correct. But if I am not mentoring (present and one on one), I am more responsible for the downside for a newbie. to do rockets and suffer through those wash (flat trades) as a combo does get people to stay out of the market. Once cash builds up, then we can go to work with a person who can press the buttons.

Rocket bo's fail alot and fail often, in fact the overwhelming majority of them fail (like today, there were no successful rockets).

*** A flat day is a flat day. You and I know that when things go slowly in the opening period, it is difficult to make more of it than is there.

The concept of washing is essential, but the reality is that they often fail soonafter entry making it close to impossible to truly wash, and normally the loss is a point here, a couple of points there. Sure, the good ones (like yesterday's short) come to play and you pick up 6-8 pts, but that barely evens out all the losing washes.

**** I will do some critical and detailed stuff on washes. If possible check into the stop log stuff I posted. The answer is there. I am going to do an offset scalping number for larger contract traders soon as well. We will, in 6 months, have a lock on a great deal of stuff.


The key, or next step shall I say, seems to clearly be the reversals as that gets you in early and profits from all the failed rockets.

**** okay. You are a millionaire plain and simple. someone asked about the A/D flipping so often. actually they asked how I could assign an A to a situation where price and volume were fading. We are going to "see" it all. The actual fact is that from ET I could scout around and tell what needs to be heard by cutting and pasting how others comment on these specific situations where they are upside down.

for now i have kept people out of using two strategies inter laced. I have made money with "continuation" almost exclusively. You will read and understand this. the A (accumulation) occurs when there is overpowering "short" in the air. When their is continuation of lateral trends, "change" creeps into the lateral "continuation". I could say that a person who pops out of a failed rocket at a loss could have made it flat by offsetting just a little in his flow of actions.

The point is that when the current is sort of very mild, you can wait for an eddy to drift through. Eagles do it on the Yukon when the salmon are showing their smarts going up stream in eddies. eagles can do it and so will we.

At ET guys progress and make money. They continually get into the groove. In 6 months we will nail it cold.

A question regarding entry on the reversal today. From your chart you show around 11:44, or the time of the VDU. But if you exit the rocket and enter short there, the market immediately goes against you and rises on some strong volume bars. Not encouraging.

****Okay . the rocket beginner will exit etc. for us though we are in a place where we are using a BO strategy unfamiliar to beginner rocket folk. If I had gone on and taken the tape off the 20/80 and I had given people carte blanche, you would see where they were and how they would behave. The pervasive relativistic stochastic myths are incredible. The BO is a powerful deal (money maker) we have to couple it with failure too. just like the rocket and wash practice pairing. We just learned where to put the petal to the metal on a BO failure and make money. just like an iceberger doesn't wash, we don't wash on BO failure. The reason is this: the key here is that the volume cannot sustain the BO. We see volume is crummy Man is stinks. And the reversal is working like we dropped a rock. What is going to stop this rock is not in the picture as yet. What IS in the picture is a failure that we turned into a pair of successful trades all during a "change" period where a reversal strategy is called for.

I have a few guys who are experts and are slaloming along day by day. We are not far from that. We will be able to stay on the right side of the trade.

Last comment. The BO and BO failures are not fast paced actions. They are momentum actions and are not scalpable for ordinary scalpers who operate in the "continuation" land.

You have great incite and you have perspective that shows as you say the words below. Going through a less than fast pace after doing rocket trades and flat washes is terrific. Pitchers sock it to them all the time with pace change. We have the monitoring skills to "read" any pitch with leading indicators (we take leading signals off lagging indicators)

After the fact, of course, it doesn't matter because it starts collapsing around 11:55. But in the meantime what makes you hold on as it's going against you on nice volume, making a higher high. Or is 11:44 too early to reverse the trade and there's a better (safer?) later entry on the short.


*** okay . Welcome to slalom land. We go for the failure and take the reversal. If we see this situation inhigher volume settings like the beginning of he day or later around 13:15, then we have some moxie going for us. this was a failure at the end of the morning. LOL I know it all seems so stacked with levels of stuff.

You won't need "safe" in the mix soon. That failure was a double top. When slalom time comes, I will take you through all the formations. We will make it to a place where we are opposite just about everyone who is giving up cash. as any major formation (BO, BO going to failure BO, double top as the failure mod, etc) we just slalom on the one min for the period of the slower major stuff. It is not scalping so to speak; it is using a reversal strategy on the harmonics of the major forces.

This is seeing that the "carrier" of the harmonics are the formations. as you "see" this, volume take on a new meaning. you will begin to see the T&S literally. It does go to KISS. But first you have to make a pile of money under low risk conditions so you simply have the confidence to be rich.


Thanks.
 
Jack, thanks for your commentary as always. Today (Wed) was a perfect example of what we were talking about yesterday, you have a rocket bo soonafter 10a, then a severe volume fall-off on the 1min indicating a failure, so beginners might do a wash exit. But if you reverse and go short right on the VDU around 976.50 (actually there were two VDU's in a row at 10:09 and 10:10), then you got nailed as the bo continued upward about 6min after the VDU's with full force. That's why I was essentially asking if you reverse right at the VDU or wait for some other confirming signal.
 
Quote from Magna:

Jack, thanks for your commentary as always. Today (Wed) was a perfect example of what we were talking about yesterday, you have a rocket bo soonafter 10a, then a severe volume fall-off on the 1min indicating a failure, so beginners might do a wash exit. But if you reverse and go short right on the VDU around 976.50 (actually there were two VDU's in a row at 10:09 and 10:10), then you got nailed as the bo continued upward about 6min after the VDU's with full force. That's why I was essentially asking if you reverse right at the VDU or wait for some other confirming signal.

I dont know but it seems prices are pausing or even falling when the VDU's occurred and the MACD is still high.

pretzel
 

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Quote from Magna:

Jack, thanks for your commentary as always. Today (Wed) was a perfect example of what we were talking about yesterday, you have a rocket bo soonafter 10a, then a severe volume fall-off on the 1min indicating a failure, so beginners might do a wash exit. But if you reverse and go short right on the VDU around 976.50 (actually there were two VDU's in a row at 10:09 and 10:10), then you got nailed as the bo continued upward about 6min after the VDU's with full force. That's why I was essentially asking if you reverse right at the VDU or wait for some other confirming signal.

Although my name is not Jack, i like to on comment this. Riding this trend was a no-brainer when you look at price-action. Yesterday was a congestion-day, the market traded back and forth in a narrow range inside the previous day's range, so this favors a breakout. The first half hour was spent in a 3-point range awaiting the news. Within 3 min the market rose 5 pts, pretty strong breakout, i guess, then if refused to retrace below 1r, and below ema-20, indicating strong upward monentum. So imo, price action rules, not volume, or trin,tick and all that crap.
 
pretzel, please explain what you mean, I don't follow you.

Ditch, I agree, by price action one would have stayed long. And beginning rocket traders, who only follow the 5m would have probably stayed long (depending on how they play the Stoch).

But if you abide by the volume on the 1min it certainly did not sustain the bo, and fell back sharply from 10:01 to 10:08, leading to the two VDU's that I mentioned at 10:09 and 10:10. That was my question to Jack.
 
Quote from Magna:

pretzel, please explain what you mean, I don't follow you.

Ditch, I agree, by price action one would have stayed long. And beginning rocket traders, who only follow the 5m would have probably stayed long (depending on how they play the Stoch).

But if you abide by the volume on the 1min it certainly did not sustain the bo, and fell back sharply from 10:01 to 10:08, leading to the two VDU's that I mentioned at 10:09 and 10:10. That was my question to Jack.

I understood your question, but again my point is don't trade volume, trade price, and after a 14 pt move start looking for congestion and go for the 2pts trades.
 
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