How To Go From Retail To Institutional Trader

Fundlord

Fundlord

I am sure that a great trader with $100,000 or so could turn that into a large nest egg over time and even quite quickly in rare cases.

But I have no doubt that reaching the upper echelon of wealth $25m, $50m, $100m, $1B etc requires OPM.

I have a meaningless trading record that would not appeal to any hedge fund/prop firm since I took obnoxious amounts of risk due to little capital. Even though I was profitable, explaining 100x leverage would be difficult.

Since I discovered trading so young at 19, I have mastered managing myself and my own state. I know when to cut my losses, reverse, take profits. I don't look back, only forward and I never whine about losses or missed trades. Its second nature to me at this stage.

How can I break into the real world of trading large amounts of money and learning from guys who manage sizeable sums of OPM.

As it stands I have:

1. 21 years old in capital european city
2. Low 5 figures cash from working shitty job, saving, trading.
3. No debt
4. Finance & Economics student will graduate in 2018
5. Trading record with a non quantifiable edge. Purely discretionary based one my view of the markets/other traders that week/day. Wouldn't be able to explain 90% of trades even though they were profitable.
6. From a well off family (don't know if this is relevant but a lot of people seem to think it does)

Would love to hear from veteran traders who are/were professional trading large $ and how you got started and if that path to success is still relevant today.

I hope nobody gives me the cookie cutter response of graduate top marks, do my masters at a target college do an internship at Goldman etc

There must be another way.................



 
The easiest way to go from retail trader to institutional trader is to minimize retail trading and develop the skills that are posted in the job ads.

There is a danger that if you spend too much time retail trading, you will be overly expressive in your trading views and interviewers will see you as a piker. Which you seem to understand.

Entry level jobs at institutions aren't interested in your market prognostications. And, rocket scientists are dime a dozen. So, what the entry level candidate really needs is to present the ability to work on the plumbing.

Look up a forum member called C4buckley. Not a lot of market prognositications from him, mostly mundane plumbing stuff. That's the type of guy who gets the starting 6 figures institutional position.

Unfortunately, most business curriculum is tailored for people AFTER they get the management job. Start taking courses in econometrics and computer science until you graduate.
 
iamnewuser911 said:
Can't you turn the 5 figures into 100k and then do that again?
More...

"I am sure that a great trader with $100,000 or so could turn that into a large nest egg over time and even quite quickly in rare cases.

But I have no doubt that reaching the upper echelon of wealth $25m, $50m, $100m, $1B etc requires OPM."

Opening lines of this thread.

500k is not remotely wealthy in the western world plus the chances of blowing up trying to get 25x your money in a short period of time are massive.
 
You need to either have:
1) A higher degree (Master or preferable PhD) in prestigious University (whether those place really produce a top rated trader is another topic of discussion)
2) Internship, but it will be mainly driven from 1 above
3) Relationship - A recommendation from someone in industry due to your track record (Quant analysis with consistent profit) or family relationship, e.g your father know the VP in Goldman or something similar. Note: People will run away if you are telling them you make 200% return a year using TA, in which in industry we all know this is BS or just purely gambling.

Alternative join a Prop Firm. However, with the crazy leverage that you can get from bucket shops this day, Prop firm don't seem have anymore attractive as it was 5 years ago.
 
xandman said:
The easiest way to go from retail trader to institutional trader is to minimize retail trading and develop the skills that are posted in the job ads.

There is a danger that if you spend too much time retail trading, you will be overly expressive in your trading views and interviewers will see you as a piker. Which you seem to understand.

Entry level jobs at institutions aren't interested in your market prognostications. And, rocket scientists are dime a dozen. So, what the entry level candidate really needs is to present the ability to work on the plumbing.

Look up a forum member called C4buckley. Not a lot of market prognositications from him, mostly mundane plumbing stuff. That's the type of guy who gets the starting 6 figures institutional position.

Unfortunately, most business curriculum is tailored for people AFTER they get the management job. Start taking courses in econometrics and computer science until you graduate.
More...


The thing is I have no interest in becoming a quant trader just so I can get hired by an institution. Econometrics is one of my modules during my final year so theres that.

I am looking for a discretionary role in a specific market I see ads for:

"oil trader" "US equities trader" "FX trader" etc none are entry level, they usually require 2-5 years experience. Although there was one that said $5m personal pnl for a nat gas trader position :eek:

I feel all the guys who manage large funds today got similar starts:

1.Carl Icahn (Options trader made equivalent of $10m per year then quit to buy businesses)
2.Steven Cohen (Equity trader who went one to making 100k per day for his firm, left with 25m
to start his fund)
3. George Soros (Arbitrage in Euro stocks, left after he saved enough to start fund)
4. John Arnold (Nat gas trader at Enron, left with $8m bonus to start his own fund)

How many I can think of who started retail trading and went on to manage billions:

1.
.............
 
Fundlord said:
I feel all the guys who manage large funds today got similar starts:

1.Carl Icahn (Options trader made equivalent of $10m per year then quit to buy businesses)
2.Steven Cohen (Equity trader who went one to making 100k per day for his firm, left with 25m
to start his fund)
3. George Soros (Arbitrage in Euro stocks, left after he saved enough to start fund)
4. John Arnold (Nat gas trader at Enron, left with $8m bonus to start his own fund)

How many I can think of who started retail trading and went on to manage billions:

1.
.............
More...

You did see the trend ? They all started to work with a "firm" ?
 
galvinlee888 said:
You need to either have:
1) A higher degree (Master or preferable PhD) in prestigious University (whether those place really produce a top rated trader is another topic of discussion)
2) Internship, but it will be mainly driven from 1 above
3) Relationship - A recommendation from someone in industry due to your track record (Quant analysis with consistent profit) or family relationship, e.g your father know the VP in Goldman or something similar. Note: People will run away if you are telling them you make 200% return a year using TA, in which in industry we all know this is BS or just purely gambling.

Alternative join a Prop Firm. However, with the crazy leverage that you can get from bucket shops this day, Prop firm don't seem have anymore attractive as it was 5 years ago.
More...

As far as relationships go my parents would only know private bankers/wealth managers and a broker who is always trying to sell us funds etc Wouldn't know anyone in investment banks/hedge funds.

The other connection I have is my cousin who works as presumable a quant (he did a comp sci degree from Michigan state) in some New York bank with a french name (not BNP) but doubt he would have any pull around there.

As for prop firms how would I market myself to them without scaring them away ?
 
Fundlord said:
...How can I break into the real world of trading large amounts of money and learning from guys who manage sizeable sums of OPM.

As it stands I have:

1. 21 years old in capital european city
2. Low 5 figures cash from working shitty job, saving, trading.
3. No debt
4. Finance & Economics student will graduate in 2018
5. Trading record with a non quantifiable edge. Purely discretionary based one my view of the markets/other traders that week/day. Wouldn't be able to explain 90% of trades even though they were profitable.
6. From a well off family (don't know if this is relevant but a lot of people seem to think it does)

Would love to hear from veteran traders who are/were professional trading large $ and how you got started and if that path to success is still relevant today.

I hope nobody gives me the cookie cutter response of graduate top marks, do my masters at a target college do an internship at Goldman etc

There must be another way.................
More...

There are a lot of Universities in Europe that specifically offer trading classes, internships, networking with those in the business you seek and even a trading room.

Seriously, there's no short cuts to what you seek...a cutter response is what most have done to get to where you seek to go.

You're almost there with being a Finance & Economics student...why not go all the way and be at one of those Universities ?

I posted an incomplete list of many Universities in Europe that offers the above...most located in England but others are located elsewhere in other countries in Europe. You can do what I did for a friend who's 21 year old daughter that wanted to go to transfer from her University that didn't offer such so that she can transfer to one of those Universities that does offer such...I just Google the info. :D

Anyways, she finish graduate school and few years ago and now works as an institutional trader for Deutsche Bank...handling very large accounts.

P.S. I'm not a professional trader...I'm retail.
 
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